Max Landing weight

[AMEDooley]

So what is the Max landing weight in the M2K? I have been doing AAR and coming back to Nellis with basically a full bag of gas, full A2A armament, and a full drop tank. I've been landing really hard. I know the 18, and 16 have max landing weights so I would figure this does as well.

[OnlyforDCS]

Currently the FM is slightly dodgy in low speed high alpha flying. Basically the aircraft runs out of lift much sooner than it should. That's why the landings are definitely harder currently than they should be. When doing an ILS landing, even if you nail it perfectly from the instrument perspective you are very likely to damage your plane if you are on the heavier side. However CptSmiley (lead FM programmer) has confirmed that this issue has been fixed and is coming in the next patch.

[Azrayen]

I know the 18, and 16 have max landing weights so I would figure this does as well.

Indeed.

 

With full A/A payload (2x 530s; 2x Magic IIs; 1x Fuselage ext. tank), you should land with 950kg of fuel to be at normal MLW. Or 3350kg to be at overrated MLW (which requires specific precautions to be taken, e.g. descent rate, parachute use...)

If you just toped, you're too heavy. 3160 internal + 990 center tank, let's say you burnt 250kg from the tanker to the RWY = 3900kg.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Azrayen

[AMEDooley]

Thank you for that info. Azrayen that will be most helpful with our documentation.

[Baxter]

There is only one publicly available Mirage manual online that I can find, please excuse my total lack of knowledge here, and it puts that Mirage at 11.3 t or metric tons for the max landing weight. Thats 11,300 kg. I see no mention of another weight in the limitations section of the manual. Which weight are you using Azrayen? Your numbers must assume that the CL tank is empty and we are landing with only 950 kg of internal fuel with the 100 kg of the tank itself? I'm just trying to figure out what the number is you came up with for Max landing weight, and did you actually mean Normal Recovery Fuel and not Max landing weight? I apologize just trying to learn some limitations for the Mirage because the information is very sparse.

[Azrayen]

Which weight are you using Azrayen?

Better ones :)

 

Your numbers must assume that the CL tank is empty and we are landing with only 950 kg of internal fuel with the 100 kg of the tank itself?

Fuel weight is given as the total, whatever tank it's in. So yes, 950kg implies empty external tanks.

BTW, RPL522+CRP (tank+pylon) is 180kg, not 100.

 

did you actually mean Normal Recovery Fuel and not Max landing weight?

No. I meant what I wrote. :)

 

++

Az'

[Ramsay]

BTW, RPL522+CRP (tank+pylon) is 180kg, not 100.

Currently the RPL522+CRP weigh 92kg

 

 

is the pylon weight a hidden stat., known bug or something I should report?

[ViFF]

Hi all,

 

Is there a conversion chart available anywhere to make the necessary Vref calculations for weight and airfield altitude?

 

S!

[Azrayen]

None that I'm aware of. But then, in this aircraft, you don't care about speed for landing. Only about AoA.

if you're within weight limits (and you should), fly the correct AoA and glidepath. Speed will be OK.

[ViFF]

OK. I get it for the landing max weight and landing AoA at 14 degrees will give you the correct approach speed.

 

But what about takeoff performance? Do you always rotate at 120 kts? even at Max TOGW at the highest airport in Nevada?

 

S!

[jojo]

OK. I get it for the landing max weight and landing AoA at 14 degrees will give you the correct approach speed.

 

But what about takeoff performance? Do you always rotate at 120 kts? even at Max TOGW at the highest airport in Nevada?

 

S!

 

No, from 120kt if you're light to 160kt at MTOW.

 

Since the HUD displays IAS the air density is already accounted for.

[ViFF]

Jojo could you share where you find that it is 160 kt at MTOW? or is this from your own personal knowledge?

 

Thanks in advance!

[jojo]

Jojo could you share where you find that it is 160 kt at MTOW? or is this from your own personal knowledge?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

It's talking with pilots...

[ViFF]

Good enough! Thanks mate!:thumbup:

[Joni]

Is fuel dump implemented? I cant get the switch to work and it will be very helpful in the Mirage!

[mvsgas]

It only dumps external tanks, not internals.

The M-2000C can only dump the fuel that exist in the external tanks. The switch

that controls the fuel dump is in the rear of the left instrument panel, above the

FBW and Autopilot Test Panel. It is a guarded switch with a yellow/black stripped

cover. Once opened, you cannot close the dump valve.

page 37 of the manual

[Joni]

It only dumps external tanks, not internals.

 

page 37 of the manual

 

My bad then, thanks for the refresh!

[VampireNZ]

OK. I get it for the landing max weight and landing AoA at 14 degrees will give you the correct approach speed.

 

But what about takeoff performance? Do you always rotate at 120 kts? even at Max TOGW at the highest airport in Nevada?

 

S!

:)

[Joni]

Awesome chart!

[Azrayen]

But what about takeoff performance? Do you always rotate at 120 kts?

Woops. No you don't. As per topic title, I didn't envision TO was included in your question :D

 

Awesome chart!

Yep.:) Too bad it's not accurate. :doh:

 

As jojo said, MTOW = rotate @ 160kt.

A/A config isn't MTOW (far from it); in A/A config, rotate at 125kt.

And you would never rotate past 200kt, as the max speed for the nose landing gear is slighlty < 200kt.

(Also I'm not sure it's a straight curve, never tried to display it graphically)

Edited August 1, 2017 by Azrayen

[VampireNZ]

Yep.:) Too bad it's not accurate. :doh:

 

Don't know, don't care - just passing on a chart I found on these very forums for the Mirage. :thumbup: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=157146&highlight=M2000C+checklist

 

+1 for the sarcasm thou..oh and interesting what you had to say about it there thou..

Nice job Toertchen :)

 

Oh and yes, generally Rotate speed is directly proportional to weight, so a straight line. Some aircraft do have a 'flat' portion where Vr is the same. P-3 example..

 

Also there is nothing wrong with a chart continuing past maximums, so above NW speed as you say. The P-3 cannot TO at 145,000lbs either.

DCS M2000C Checklist REV 7.pdf

Edited August 1, 2017 by VampireNZ

[ViFF]

Thank you very much VampireNZ!

 

 

Too bad it's not accurate. :doh:

 

When can us brave virtual pilots see something accurate?

 

Or shall we continue to throw ourselves into battle against the American and Russian hordes relying on checklists and performance charts created on best guesstimates and good intentions?

 

Cheers :D

[NeilWillis]

You did say brave, so what's a little drama on take off to a hero?

[ViFF]

touche` :smoke:

[Azrayen]

+1 for the sarcasm thou..oh and interesting what you had to say about it there thou..

It was a simple observation :)

And the chart didn't exist when I answered more than 1.5 year ago ;)

Thanks for the link anyway, I shall inform Toertchen!

 

When can us brave virtual pilots see something accurate?

My understanding is that the flight manual is being revised as we speak (announcement from Baltic Dragon).

As for myself, as I said no chart available sorry. With VampireNZ's indication that curve should be straight, with 2 weights (empty+A/A) and two speeds, I guess something could be done.

I can also provide a 3rd datapoint: 150kt for 2x Fox 2s + 4x Mk-82s + 2x wing tanks.

I haven't the weight available now.