AMEDooley Posted July 1, 2017 Posted July 1, 2017 So what is the Max landing weight in the M2K? I have been doing AAR and coming back to Nellis with basically a full bag of gas, full A2A armament, and a full drop tank. I've been landing really hard. I know the 18, and 16 have max landing weights so I would figure this does as well. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
OnlyforDCS Posted July 1, 2017 Posted July 1, 2017 Currently the FM is slightly dodgy in low speed high alpha flying. Basically the aircraft runs out of lift much sooner than it should. That's why the landings are definitely harder currently than they should be. When doing an ILS landing, even if you nail it perfectly from the instrument perspective you are very likely to damage your plane if you are on the heavier side. However CptSmiley (lead FM programmer) has confirmed that this issue has been fixed and is coming in the next patch. Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals.
Azrayen Posted July 1, 2017 Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) I know the 18, and 16 have max landing weights so I would figure this does as well. Indeed. With full A/A payload (2x 530s; 2x Magic IIs; 1x Fuselage ext. tank), you should land with 950kg of fuel to be at normal MLW. Or 3350kg to be at overrated MLW (which requires specific precautions to be taken, e.g. descent rate, parachute use...) If you just toped, you're too heavy. 3160 internal + 990 center tank, let's say you burnt 250kg from the tanker to the RWY = 3900kg. Edited July 1, 2017 by Azrayen
AMEDooley Posted July 1, 2017 Author Posted July 1, 2017 Thank you for that info. Azrayen that will be most helpful with our documentation. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Baxter Posted July 3, 2017 Posted July 3, 2017 There is only one publicly available Mirage manual online that I can find, please excuse my total lack of knowledge here, and it puts that Mirage at 11.3 t or metric tons for the max landing weight. Thats 11,300 kg. I see no mention of another weight in the limitations section of the manual. Which weight are you using Azrayen? Your numbers must assume that the CL tank is empty and we are landing with only 950 kg of internal fuel with the 100 kg of the tank itself? I'm just trying to figure out what the number is you came up with for Max landing weight, and did you actually mean Normal Recovery Fuel and not Max landing weight? I apologize just trying to learn some limitations for the Mirage because the information is very sparse.
Azrayen Posted July 7, 2017 Posted July 7, 2017 Which weight are you using Azrayen? Better ones :) Your numbers must assume that the CL tank is empty and we are landing with only 950 kg of internal fuel with the 100 kg of the tank itself? Fuel weight is given as the total, whatever tank it's in. So yes, 950kg implies empty external tanks. BTW, RPL522+CRP (tank+pylon) is 180kg, not 100. did you actually mean Normal Recovery Fuel and not Max landing weight? No. I meant what I wrote. :) ++ Az'
Ramsay Posted July 15, 2017 Posted July 15, 2017 BTW, RPL522+CRP (tank+pylon) is 180kg, not 100. Currently the RPL522+CRP weigh 92kg is the pylon weight a hidden stat., known bug or something I should report? i9 9900K @4.8GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX4070 12GB, 1+2TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 4+1TB SSD, Winwing Orion 2 F-15EX Throttle + F-16EX Stick, TPR Pedals, TIR5, Win 11 Pro x64, Odyssey G93SC 5120X1440
ViFF Posted August 1, 2017 Posted August 1, 2017 Hi all, Is there a conversion chart available anywhere to make the necessary Vref calculations for weight and airfield altitude? S! IAF.ViFF http://www.preflight.us Israel's Combat Flight Sim Community Website
Azrayen Posted August 1, 2017 Posted August 1, 2017 None that I'm aware of. But then, in this aircraft, you don't care about speed for landing. Only about AoA. if you're within weight limits (and you should), fly the correct AoA and glidepath. Speed will be OK.
ViFF Posted August 1, 2017 Posted August 1, 2017 OK. I get it for the landing max weight and landing AoA at 14 degrees will give you the correct approach speed. But what about takeoff performance? Do you always rotate at 120 kts? even at Max TOGW at the highest airport in Nevada? S! IAF.ViFF http://www.preflight.us Israel's Combat Flight Sim Community Website
jojo Posted August 1, 2017 Posted August 1, 2017 OK. I get it for the landing max weight and landing AoA at 14 degrees will give you the correct approach speed. But what about takeoff performance? Do you always rotate at 120 kts? even at Max TOGW at the highest airport in Nevada? S! No, from 120kt if you're light to 160kt at MTOW. Since the HUD displays IAS the air density is already accounted for. Mirage fanatic ! I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2. Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi
ViFF Posted August 1, 2017 Posted August 1, 2017 Jojo could you share where you find that it is 160 kt at MTOW? or is this from your own personal knowledge? Thanks in advance! IAF.ViFF http://www.preflight.us Israel's Combat Flight Sim Community Website
jojo Posted August 1, 2017 Posted August 1, 2017 Jojo could you share where you find that it is 160 kt at MTOW? or is this from your own personal knowledge? Thanks in advance! It's talking with pilots... Mirage fanatic ! I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2. Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi
ViFF Posted August 1, 2017 Posted August 1, 2017 Good enough! Thanks mate!:thumbup: IAF.ViFF http://www.preflight.us Israel's Combat Flight Sim Community Website
Joni Posted August 1, 2017 Posted August 1, 2017 Is fuel dump implemented? I cant get the switch to work and it will be very helpful in the Mirage! Intel Core i5-8600k + Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO | Gigabyte GTX 1070 Aorus 8G | 32GB DDR4 Corsair Vengance LPX Black 3200MHz | Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 3 | WD Black SN750 NVMe 500GB | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB | WD Green 240GB | WD Caviar Black 1TB SATA 3 | WD Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 3 | EVGA 650 GQ 80+ Gold | Samsung CF391 Curved 32" | Corsair 400C | Steelseries Arctis 5 --- Razer Kraken X Lite | Logitech G305 | Redragon Dyaus 2 K509 | Xbox 360 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Thrustmaster TWCS | TrackIR 5
mvsgas Posted August 1, 2017 Posted August 1, 2017 It only dumps external tanks, not internals. The M-2000C can only dump the fuel that exist in the external tanks. The switch that controls the fuel dump is in the rear of the left instrument panel, above the FBW and Autopilot Test Panel. It is a guarded switch with a yellow/black stripped cover. Once opened, you cannot close the dump valve. page 37 of the manual To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..
Joni Posted August 1, 2017 Posted August 1, 2017 It only dumps external tanks, not internals. page 37 of the manual My bad then, thanks for the refresh! Intel Core i5-8600k + Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO | Gigabyte GTX 1070 Aorus 8G | 32GB DDR4 Corsair Vengance LPX Black 3200MHz | Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 3 | WD Black SN750 NVMe 500GB | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB | WD Green 240GB | WD Caviar Black 1TB SATA 3 | WD Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 3 | EVGA 650 GQ 80+ Gold | Samsung CF391 Curved 32" | Corsair 400C | Steelseries Arctis 5 --- Razer Kraken X Lite | Logitech G305 | Redragon Dyaus 2 K509 | Xbox 360 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Thrustmaster TWCS | TrackIR 5
VampireNZ Posted August 1, 2017 Posted August 1, 2017 OK. I get it for the landing max weight and landing AoA at 14 degrees will give you the correct approach speed. But what about takeoff performance? Do you always rotate at 120 kts? even at Max TOGW at the highest airport in Nevada? S! :) Vampire
Joni Posted August 1, 2017 Posted August 1, 2017 Awesome chart! Intel Core i5-8600k + Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO | Gigabyte GTX 1070 Aorus 8G | 32GB DDR4 Corsair Vengance LPX Black 3200MHz | Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 3 | WD Black SN750 NVMe 500GB | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB | WD Green 240GB | WD Caviar Black 1TB SATA 3 | WD Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 3 | EVGA 650 GQ 80+ Gold | Samsung CF391 Curved 32" | Corsair 400C | Steelseries Arctis 5 --- Razer Kraken X Lite | Logitech G305 | Redragon Dyaus 2 K509 | Xbox 360 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Thrustmaster TWCS | TrackIR 5
Azrayen Posted August 1, 2017 Posted August 1, 2017 (edited) But what about takeoff performance? Do you always rotate at 120 kts? Woops. No you don't. As per topic title, I didn't envision TO was included in your question :D Awesome chart! Yep.:) Too bad it's not accurate. :doh: As jojo said, MTOW = rotate @ 160kt. A/A config isn't MTOW (far from it); in A/A config, rotate at 125kt. And you would never rotate past 200kt, as the max speed for the nose landing gear is slighlty < 200kt. (Also I'm not sure it's a straight curve, never tried to display it graphically) Edited August 1, 2017 by Azrayen 1
VampireNZ Posted August 1, 2017 Posted August 1, 2017 (edited) Yep.:) Too bad it's not accurate. :doh: Don't know, don't care - just passing on a chart I found on these very forums for the Mirage. :thumbup: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=157146&highlight=M2000C+checklist +1 for the sarcasm thou..oh and interesting what you had to say about it there thou.. Nice job Toertchen :) Oh and yes, generally Rotate speed is directly proportional to weight, so a straight line. Some aircraft do have a 'flat' portion where Vr is the same. P-3 example.. Also there is nothing wrong with a chart continuing past maximums, so above NW speed as you say. The P-3 cannot TO at 145,000lbs either.DCS M2000C Checklist REV 7.pdf Edited August 1, 2017 by VampireNZ Vampire
ViFF Posted August 2, 2017 Posted August 2, 2017 Thank you very much VampireNZ! Too bad it's not accurate. :doh: When can us brave virtual pilots see something accurate? Or shall we continue to throw ourselves into battle against the American and Russian hordes relying on checklists and performance charts created on best guesstimates and good intentions? Cheers :D IAF.ViFF http://www.preflight.us Israel's Combat Flight Sim Community Website
NeilWillis Posted August 2, 2017 Posted August 2, 2017 You did say brave, so what's a little drama on take off to a hero?
ViFF Posted August 2, 2017 Posted August 2, 2017 touche` :smoke: IAF.ViFF http://www.preflight.us Israel's Combat Flight Sim Community Website
Azrayen Posted August 2, 2017 Posted August 2, 2017 +1 for the sarcasm thou..oh and interesting what you had to say about it there thou.. It was a simple observation :) And the chart didn't exist when I answered more than 1.5 year ago ;) Thanks for the link anyway, I shall inform Toertchen! When can us brave virtual pilots see something accurate? My understanding is that the flight manual is being revised as we speak (announcement from Baltic Dragon). As for myself, as I said no chart available sorry. With VampireNZ's indication that curve should be straight, with 2 weights (empty+A/A) and two speeds, I guess something could be done. I can also provide a 3rd datapoint: 150kt for 2x Fox 2s + 4x Mk-82s + 2x wing tanks. I haven't the weight available now.
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