Upgrade from x52 to Warthog - worth it?

[Headwarp]

If you think you can keep going with this hobby without tinkering then you are in the wrong hobby. Things with moving parts will need maintaining from time to time and moving parts from China might need fettling out of the box. These issues are realities that won't be going away anytime soon.

 

Reading through your long post, I seems that your stiction issues were occurring when you tried to fly with the pressure of one finger? I just tried that with mine and, sure enough, there is a little bit of stiction there that I never noticed. I certainly don't notice it with one hand on the stick. Once I get my extension sorted even that minimal stiction will be gone.

 

Anyway, the glass is half full for me and I'm grateful we have access to affordable hardware like this. I'm certainly also grateful to the users who posted calm and sensible reviews laying out all the pros and cons, I'm just not overly interested in the whining.

 

I'm not overly interested in your opinion that because I broke a wire which isn't hard to do inside the stick and had to fix a problem that presented itself out of the box that I'm "incapable". Coming from a guy who didn't even know what signs to look for when having concerns about the quality of a joystick.

 

Especially now, considering you just backtracked on your statement of "Mine was fine from day one!". Blatent fanboyism if you ask me. Good luck if you ever decide to open your stick and grease it.. but.. considering you haven't, and are planning to treat the symptom rather than hit it head on and can't handle a response to your rather rude statement about me, I'll refrain from using a four letter word followed by "you"and elaborate a bit more for the sake of other users of these forums, even if you do kind of deserve it. My lack of capability fixed Thrustmaster's defect.. they aren't beyond fault.. and neither are you. What's that? You're using other people's experiences to determine it's easier to buy an extension than open it up and grease it yourself?

 

It happened with minimal pressure, entire hand on stick..I.E. barely pulling the stick for small adjustments in pitch or roll. The one finger statement was showing that the stiction was gone after going in and taking care of the issue myself. When I opened it up some of the moving parts had no lube at all.. that's not maintenance.. that's solving neglect in the manufacturing process and has nothing to do with with my capabilities.. especially considering I fixed it, when there is no justifiable reason why someone should have any issues whatsoever with an item donning such a high pricetag OUT OF THE BOX... which says more about the manufacturer's current capabilities than mine.

 

The OP can find more examples similar to mine to get an idea what to look for regarding his latest purchase.. and has an idea on what parts to be careful with. You on the other hand? You're just pretty rude. Call it whining. From my standpoint? I used sarcasm and actual experience and knowledge to point out to you that you're rude and apparently ready to stand up and defend a product's defect defending your favorite expensive toy. The fact that I'm not alone in these concerns as outlined by MANY posts in these forums, in SimHQ forums, IL-2 forums..basically all over the simming community... tends to show that it can be a legitimate concern to look out for and that TM is likely doing something wrong that is causing this to be an issue for so many of their customers and their brand new stick. I hope the OP's new purchase serves him well.. I really do. But there are enough occurrences that his pre-purchase concerns have merit, and likely that should his stick show problems OUT OF THE BOX he should return it for hopefully a better unit that doesn't need taking apart the first day he uses it.

 

You seem pretty incapable of offering good advice or reading comprehension. Or realizing when you were being a bit of a donkey, much to my own woe I am being myself right now having been sucked into your logic. At least I know I'm being insulting right now.. guess that's one more capability I have that you don't. I also know how to apologize when I've put my foot in my mouth.. but in this case, I'm simply trying to help you remove your foot from your mouth. Should you apologize.. I might respond to your next post a bit more kindly.. but as it stands.. there's not really much you have to say that I think you're capable enough for it to be worth the effort to read or reply to. Ermergerd post is too long.. reading is hard. Man typing 90-120 wpm is a curse.. you think I haven't been calm while typing any of this which I actually find pretty amusing.. and you're kind of the joke.

 

To the OP and the rest of this thread - I'm sorry this guy chose to judge me incapable based on a thread where I attempted and successfully fixed issues with the very stick the OP is asking about. I'm sorry I didn't just let it go. But I won't have my character attacked by someone who clearly doesn't accept that other people may have different experiences than his own or that mistakes are a part of human nature and not something he or anyone is above, including Thrustmaster. Not without pointing out to him and anybody potentially listening to him on this particular subject that he certainly isn't putting in any of the work to say how tedious or unpleasant the task of repairing it can be. Hence the jump from "Mine is fine!" to "mine has stiction!" Which personally begs the question.. does this guy fly in situations where smooth small movements of the stick on the x or y access are necessary? Does he fly by yanking the stick all over the place at all times irregardless of the effect it has on his energy state in combat situations? Finding manufacturing defects in expensive gaming peripherals and finding concern with the fact is normal, and in my opinion something consumers shouldn't just sit down and take. You deserve nothing but excellence with a joystick carrying this pricetag.

 

I hope the OP at least takes from this experience knowledge of what symptoms to look for so he can make a proper decision what to do about it. If you find issues and choose "Oh it's cool thrustmaster, don't sweat it. I still love you, it's not your fault".. all the power to you.. but I'd avoid casting negative opinions about people who chose to do something about it where you wouldn't.

 

I'm not replying further to this guy.. OP you have my experience. I can tell you I'm not alone in the experience. Some people have been lucky where I wasn't. Hopefully you will be too considering you already made the purchase. I'm also not alone in finding a broken wire after the regreasing process that I was able to avoid a second time. Heck I'm pretty sure I've read from posters who opened it up wondering why their buttons weren't working to find a din ribbon broken away from the female ps2 connection. But if there's any stiction I'd call TM's toll free support number and see about getting a replacement while it's still considered a new purchase, and if they insist you grease it up, return it to the retailer and maybe buy one from a place with optimal storage conditions. Unless you want to open it up.. which isn't overly difficult.. just be careful of a few details or you might need to also invest in a soldering iron and some practice using it. There's also the option of finding the guy in these forums who offers to grease and correct manufacturing faults for his fellow simmers. If you send me a PM i can ask my buddy how to get in touch with him, although I'm pretty sure he shouldn't be overly difficult to find with a bit of googling. I'm quite certain I stumbled over his post when I first noticed my joystick had stiction problems, about a year ago when I first started using it. My concerns with opening my stick were well founded.. it took more risk and effort than I believe should be necessary.. I have high..erm.. I mean appropriate standards for toys that cost several hundred dollars.

 

If you really need me to I can start digging up several of the posts about the TM Warthog.. backing my words up demonstrating informative opinion rather than a generalized sweeping judgement of some person I've never met but thinks he knows me enough to judge my competence based on a forum post. I admittedly sunk lower than his level making my points.. but feel pretty correct in the lack of thoughtfulness occurring in that mind with statements like "Long post, whiny." as if less than a page of reading material is beyond his comprehension while including no research or informed discussion other than his own experience that he's content with the product he received. You might luck out. You might not. Hope you do. Normally I would try not to assume so much about someone I've never met or spoken to personally.. but I also don't take kindly to rude gestures that ignore tons of other evidence out there that you might want to check a few things when you get your new stick and be aware of what can go wrong in the process. But you can listen to who you want.. someone that acts as if a thought that exceeds 160 characters is too much to read and doesn't have any compelling argument to reinforce his opinion.. or the various people on these forums who have gone through the trouble of actually looking at the insides of their sticks.. done some research and offering you an opinion developed from not only his own experiences, but the others suffering the same issues, which you might be lucky enough to not be included in that statistic. If I wasn't alone.. I'd probably be saying "Oh just bad luck.. I got a lemon".. but finding a problem that led me to research that shows me I'm very much not alone regarding WH Stiction.. you better believe the email I sent Thrustmaster was longer and more informative than anything I've ever posted in a forum. Including examples of other technology doing it better, outlining higher standards and expectations wanting newer products to have design improvements for not just me, but ANYONE willling to drop this amount of money on what is essentially a grown person's toy, including current warthog users.. even this guy who doesn't think he deserves better.

 

*post edit* I'll make the first step towards embracing this community that I'd like to see become something more people become interested in, and also continue to find high quality tools to enjoy it with. I'm not going to take back the things I've typed above.. as I feel I had a point and am done thinking about this.. if a moderator feels the need to *snip* I won't take offense to it, and do apologize for causing you the effort.

 

BigDuke.. I'm sorry for my reaction to the things you said about me and your continued attempt to invalidate my experience. It was just as rude.. and I could have made the same points without making brash assumptions about you as a person based on your perspective of my experience with the TM Warthog. I don't wish hard feelings. We have something in common besides being WH owners albeit different experiences. We like to sim. This probably wont' be the last time I show my disdain for the experience I paid what to many people is a large sum of money for something that just didn't meet up with the expectations of what I was paying for until I took the steps to fix it.

 

You got a stick and you felt okay with its performance. Many people have and it's just as valid an opinion. Some of us weren't so lucky, and our experiences are also just as valid. Some of my personal frustration with this experience stems with what seems like a decline in quality standards in the general business/consumer arrangement in this day and age. I shared an experience. I'm not paid to write user reviews. And believe it or not I've owned joysticks and other things that never required any maintenance on my part.. including ones priced low enough that a mishap with it wouldn't phase me if I had to buy another..including ones I've had to treat gently because my younger years of playing Descent taught me what poor stick control and roughness can do.

 

Regardless.. I respect that you'd apparently take no displeasure if the tables were reversed and you found something that you didn't like about your $400-500 product. And I'd appreciate it if you'd respect the fact, that having a jerky stick was no fault of my own and I did find some displeasure in having to correct it myself. "Mine works fine from day one" would have been sufficient.. telling someone I must be "incapable" is an entirely different matter..especially concerning a common discussion in the pc flight simming world. Which might help to explain the redundancy of me having a bit of fun returning the blow. I will own my part in this. In the end we'll both get over it and move on.. but I'd rather do so with a "handshake". There's no telling where we might run into each other in the future both in multiplayer and on the forums. I think the bottom line is most of us just want to plug in, fly and have fun. I'm under no obligation to summarize my opinions.. and you're under no obligation to read something you feel is too long. But neither of us should be invalidating the other. And I don't feel either of us is necessarily correct in our assumptions of one another.

Edited July 15, 2017 by Headwarp

[sze5003]

Speaking of stiction problems I've had mine for 3 weeks now and I'm not sure how to figure out if I have an issue or not.

 

It does get a little heavy on rotation if I haven't used it in a while. It seems fine to me because I have nothing to compare it to except the x52 pro which is wildly loose.

 

Although I do agree if you buy something of this price quality control should be at the top of the list.

 

But maybe sometimes you get unlucky. When I bought a gigabyte OC 1080ti that card was flimsy and made of lots of plastic shroud around it. It was unstable at even stock speeds and crashed if you changed the OC mode from normal to OC or game mode.

 

This was an $800+ tax purchase and you bet I was pissed. Lucky Newegg was out of stock when I processed my RMA and got my money back. The Asus oc strix which I have now is nothing but solid.

 

Then again there are several people with the gigabyte model that got a perfect one and no complaints.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Headwarp]

Speaking of stiction problems I've had mine for 3 weeks now and I'm not sure how to figure out if I have an issue or not.

 

It does get a little heavy on rotation if I haven't used it in a while. It seems fine to me because I have nothing to compare it to except the x52 pro which is wildly loose.

 

Although I do agree if you buy something of this price quality control should be at the top of the list.

 

But maybe sometimes you get unlucky. When I bought a gigabyte OC 1080ti that card was flimsy and made of lots of plastic shroud around it. It was unstable at even stock speeds and crashed if you changed the OC mode from normal to OC or game mode.

 

This was an $800+ tax purchase and you bet I was pissed. Lucky Newegg was out of stock when I processed my RMA and got my money back. The Asus oc strix which I have now is nothing but solid.

 

Then again there are several people with the gigabyte model that got a perfect one and no complaints.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

Just try to move the stick as slowly as you can..with only as much force as it takes to get it moving initially along both axes.. If you have issues it will become apparent then. For me the stick would literally stop moving until I added more pressure and it was across the entirity of the axes, and the state of the balljoint when I opened it made me wonder why it was only with minimal pressure. If it doesn't want to move smoothly across the entire axis, adding/replacing grease to all moving parts might be the fix for you. Others have felt it necessary to sand particular pieces and have posted videos on how to do so, and there is at least one person who visits these forums who has offered to help people who don't feel comfortable doing so themselves, although you have to ship the base to him.

 

Other people suggest adding an extension to alleviate symptoms.. personally I'm not interested in making the thing bigger and enjoy the stock spring strength.

 

In a lot of cases you may not need that extra fine control that stiction might prevent.. but I actually really like the stick now that it functions the way it should.

 

P.S. manufacturer's warranties can be pretty solid. Newegg sent me a borked 980 Ti when I ordered mine.. EVGA sent me a prepaid shipping label and had me a working 980ti within like a week and a half. In hindsight.. I should have returned it to newegg rather than register the defective card.. it caused me to be just outside of their step-up program.. I'd have a 1080 if I had gone about it differently. More hindsight.. I should have just waited for pascal. my 680 FTW 4gb was still holding its own. But - the 980TI has and will serve me well for some time. Not sweating it too much that I jumped the gun.

Edited July 15, 2017 by Headwarp

[BigDuke6ixx]

The idea that you should be able to push the stick with one finger and encounter zero stiction is utterly ridiculous in my opinion. If this is how the problem is being measured, then it's not a problem.

[sze5003]

The idea that you should be able to push the stick with one finger and encounter zero stiction is utterly ridiculous in my opinion. If this is how the problem is being measured, then it's not a problem.

One finger push is smooth for me on the y axis, requires a bit more on the x axis. But when I'm in flight if I need to make a turn when I start slowly left or right I have to apply more force but the turn is smooth and not jagged so it should be ok. I also just made sure I didn't tighten it too much to the base. I think it's alright, hopefully I won't have any issues.

 

Plan on keeping it a long time so if I do run into issues I may contact that guy who does repairs on the forum. Although I'd hate to fly with my x52 pro in the meantime.

Just try to move the stick as slowly as you can..with only as much force as it takes to get it moving initially along both axes.. If you have issues it will become apparent then. For me the stick would literally stop moving until I added more pressure and it was across the entire axes, and the state of the balljoint when I opened it made me wonder why it was only with minimal pressure. If it doesn't want to move smoothly across the entire axis, adding/replacing grease to all moving parts might be the fix for you. Others have felt it necessary to sand particular pieces and have posted videos on how to do so, and there is at least one person who visits these forums who has offered to help people who don't feel comfortable doing so themselves, although you have to ship the base to him.

 

Other people suggest adding an extension to alleviate symptoms.. personally I'm not interested in making the thing bigger and enjoy the stock spring strength.

 

In a lot of cases you may not need that extra fine control that stiction might prevent.. but I actually really like the stick now that it functions the way it should.

 

P.S. manufacturer's warranties can be pretty solid. Newegg sent me a borked 980 Ti when I ordered mine.. EVGA sent me a prepaid shipping label and had me a working 980ti within like a week and a half. In hindsight.. I should have returned it to newegg rather than register the defective card.. it caused me to be just outside of their step-up program.. I'd have a 1080 if I had gone about it differently. More hindsight.. I should have just waited for pascal. my 680 FTW 4gb was still holding its own. But - the 980TI has and will serve me well for some time.

Evga is extremely solid. I had a ftw 1070 a few months back and sold it on anandtech forums. Evga customer service is better than Newegg. Any issues and they take care of you as if you walked into the Apple store. Only reason I didn't get a ftw 1080ti was because when I was buying at the time stock was so limited and I was running Intel gpu. Evga wouldn't ship until late March so I just grabbed the Asus while it rarely came in stock.

 

But for future reference I will always go evga just because of their warranty and advance replacement technique.

 

Btw a lot of people had issues with ftw 1080ti because of the new icx fan technology. Only two fans would spin unless the evga oc utility was running and even then the third fan wouldn't operate at normal speed and cooling temps. I'm sure the new stock has been fixed now but just something I heard from friends who got one.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Headwarp]

The idea that you should be able to push the stick with one finger and encounter zero stiction is utterly ridiculous in my opinion. If this is how the problem is being measured, then it's not a problem.

 

Lol you missed the part where I said it was happening with my entire hand Duke.. and again that i was saying I could do so with one finger after I greased it. Minimal pressure means the least amount of pressure required to move the stick at all..regardless of how many fingers or what grip used. And when that required pressure isn't consistant and the stick is getting stuck every few mm requiring more force to move it again, resulting in overshooting your intended angle as you're using more pressure than should be required to simply move the stick .. that is indeed a problem in the eyes of many experienced simmers.

 

And again.. there are plenty of posters on the forums who disagree with you.

 

But I'm done with it man.. I never really cared about your personal experience and thought on the product nor you mine. I would have nothing to say to you if your had just stuck to your own experience. Fact is you got rude. I got rude. I've added an apology for that in my last response to you, admittedly having let myself get a little carried away.

 

You would be singing a different tune if you'd had your hand on my warthog. Dburne has commented that he too was just like you.. didn't see what the fuss was about until he got ahold of a stick that had bad stiction.. there are tons of forum posts of it. You seem to not be "experiencing a problem".. and do not have the patience to read replies pointing out that YMMV (YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY). A little research might make you feel a little lucky.

 

 

Multiple youtube videos..multiple forum posts not only in the ED forums that say hey "there's a problem" and I'd like to believe that all of those posters are honestly glad you're not experiencing it. I personally hope everbody has as good an experience. But from where I've been.. the things I've read.. not everybody is.

 

Type "Warthog Stiction" in google and just look at all those results that pop up. You aren't one of those people. Good on you! TM didn't leave a bad taste in your mouth.

 

There are times where you need to make very fine movements when flying various sims.. my stick didn't allow it. I corrected that..and am pleased with the result.. albeit not the experience causing me to feel the need to do so. I'm completely on the side that you are entitled to your own experience and opinion. But in the future, unless you were in my shoes having the exact experience I had, please refrain from discrediting me and MY experiences when you're probably halfway across the country, or even world. They were made by the same people but we're holding different sticks. If you don't have the attention span to read and comprehend what's being said just stick to your own experiences rather than discredit a fellow simmer for work you've never even attempted to do yourself, keep your comments to what you know and leave your assumptions out of it. At least try to.. and again. I'm sorry for unloading on you. Peace pipe bro. There's no good to be had from trying to invalidate peoples negative experiences with a product. Even if you haven't had those same negative experiences yourself. Unless you're a Thrustmaster employee. Then your comments make total sense. I'm not trying to invalidate that you've had an enjoyable experience since purchasing your Warthog. But your comments about me were uncalled for.. and the fact that you're still on about how your stick is fine so mine should have been too wouldn't be, in my opinion, a good look on anybody. I won't even claim that I was justified in firing back.. but I do think you're missing plenty of information and barking up the wrong tree at this point. I know I am.. I don't owe you further explanation. The evidence that "there is a problem" exists.. if someone who reads this thread is caught unaware because BigDuke thinks I'm exaggerating and crazy.. then it's on them. And hopefully it's a little easier for them to solve than it was for me. Hopefully.. they don't have an issue in the first place. But it can happen.

 

I would not tell anyone to buy or not to buy any given item they're considering. The most I would do is share my experiences with it..which might include a little research on the subject, including potential mishaps.

 

sze5003 - You'll know if it ever becomes something you need to worry about. I was literally fighting my stick for small axis corrections while flying. Heli's were impossible to fly smoothly and I didn't much enjoy it when trying to aim in a prop plane either. Faster movement of the stick felt smooth.. it was just when moving it slowly, and trying to make small adjustments. That's when you could feel the parts inside the gimbal almost literally grab on to eachother. Both axes of my stick were that bad.. if the Y axis had been smooth but not X I might have held off on taking it apart for awhile longer. Could still be problematic in a heli sim, but in fixed wings the accuracy of my roll axis is not what determines my ability to line up a shot. Now that it's greased I can fly as gently as I want. If you're adamant about the disassembly process, there are guides out there, even ones that will help you avoid snapping a wire like I did. But it's up to you whether you really feel like you need it or not. And there's no shame in getting help from someone who's more of a handyman.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Headwarp

[Mr_Burns]

The idea that you should be able to push the stick with one finger and encounter zero stiction is utterly ridiculous in my opinion. If this is how the problem is being measured, then it's not a problem.

 

Are you having problems reading or are you trolling? They guy is posting his poor experience of the Warthog, he is not alone and its good to hear the good, bad and ugly when investing in a hotas that is not a bargain basement purchase.

[BigDuke6ixx]

Are you having problems reading or are you trolling? They guy is posting his poor experience of the Warthog, he is not alone and its good to hear the good, bad and ugly when investing in a hotas that is not a bargain basement purchase.

 

 

A small amount of stiction when applying light pressure with one digit is nothing to panic about. I didn't even notice this until I went looking for it. I won't be stripping down my unit to 'fix' this anytime soon. The only reason I'm putting on an extension is to get the stick in the right position within the VR cockpit.

Edited July 16, 2017 by BigDuke6ixx

[Art-J]

Oh, you'll have to strip it whether you want it or not when the infamous O-ring detaches making your stick inop :D (many posts on the subject all over the net as well). Mine did after two years (2014 production batch), with quality decreasing I wonder how soon it will go on new sticks.

 

@ R1Lawsy - bookmark this vid, the best one about disassembly, regreasing and assembly out there, you gonna need it some day ;). I did and can recommend it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQOOoPdmRl8

 

As for the stiction, whether it's something to panic or not depends on aircraft as well. It might not be an issue with modern birds, but becomes a chore with choppers and WWII stuff, which requires exponentially better input precision.

[lokodehortaleza]

A small amount of stiction when applying light pressure with one digit is nothing to panic about. I didn't even notice this until I went looking for it. I won't be stripping down my unit to 'fix' this anytime soon. The only reason I'm putting on an extension is to get the stick in the right position within the VR cockpit.

 

You know what's something to panic about? Spending +200 € on a high end joystick, and finding out you just bought a very good metal A-10C grip connected to a pair of greased plastic balls instead of a proper gimbal. If yours works all right that's great, you got lucky, but the basic design is abysmal nevertheless.

 

When I bought my Warthog there weren't many other options, but right now? The VKB and Virpil offerings aren't that much more expensive, you get a proper gimbal where both axis are completely independent, adjustable spring tension, replaceable cams and springs for fine tuning, compatible with the Warthog grip if you have it... Going for one of those instead is a no brainer.