Campbell Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Seems like an impossible feet. Their supposed to be average yet they fly like experts. I can get the first guy but the second guy Just wears me down until my engine blows or he gets one hit from 2000 meters away. They have unlimited energy and can go from stall to climbing like a rocket. It's like your fighting a UFO. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razo+r Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Once again, the AI is using the SFM and not the flight model that a player uses, keep that in mind. Also, the AI is very predictable, so observ it and learn their pattern, then you can think of a way on how to counter that maneuver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campbell Posted August 11, 2017 Author Share Posted August 11, 2017 What is SFM? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razo+r Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Standard Flight Model, the same flight model that is used in the MiG-29 so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campbell Posted August 11, 2017 Author Share Posted August 11, 2017 Oh geese no wonder it flys like a rocket ship Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodooman Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 the AI never changes it's mind after deciding "nose flow" or "tailflow" (1 circle vs 2 circle fight). if it goes for noseflow (as it most often do) you go for tail flow and use that to your advantage. as you propably know. in tail flow turn radius wins, in nose flow turn rate wins. anyway thats how i get the 109 ai most often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimmerdylan Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 However.......You can still beat it. Start out fighting it with less than 50% fuel in your Mustang, put the AI skill level at it's lowest, load it up with full fuel, and start with the Dora (was easiest for me anyway). You will still lose several of the battles but will start to feel the edge you have gained. After a short time, the difference in your and the AI's performance through changing settings will start to be apparent. This will give you time during the fights to realize your turning radius, stall speeds, and general abilities as a whole. When you are fighting the AI at it's full capabilities, it gives you absolutely no chance to do anything but run like he!!. Beginners need to be challenged, not beaten to death. As you keep fighting the AI with these settings, you will start winning more than losing. And then you can start to fiddle with the degree of skill the AI has. It takes some time but it works. I started out by getting killed 9 out of 10 fights. I now regularly beat AI aircraft 3/4 of the time. I don't really dogfight much and still have advanced that far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodooman Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) here are 2 tracks against the mighty 109 AI Exellent. apologies about the zip file, they were just over 5mb limit for tracks so i had to zip them. crappy shooting in the -E one, i had so many opportunities to kill him :( but i think i got the moral victory still as i hit him, got his aileron and some other hits, and he didn't hit me once. prepared to be bored as it takes ages as he runs out of fuel (150liters on both aircraft). but it still shows the tactics that work against the ai, so it might have some educational value..? it's hard to shoot head on against the sniper ai, but on the other one i got him properly:D one must just remember to not be 100% head on to survive against the sniper ai. you'll see that even against the AI ACE it's possible to hold your own in the P-51. just remember, turn radius wins in 2 circle fight, and start your turns when he's slowest in his turn/climb. dont try to engage with every pass, wait for the golden opportunity ;) it's not easy i tell you, but it's the only thing i do offline in dcs, and im pretty seasoned against the 109 AI Exellent.vs 109 ace cold.zipvs 109 ace cold -E.zip Edited August 14, 2017 by voodooman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodooman Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) here's the mission if you want to try it out ;) but i warn you, you go against 109 ace ai that comes for you from 2 kilometers, and you start from ground with cold engine, hehe, just to make it interesting:DNormandy ramp start P-51vs109.miz Edited August 14, 2017 by voodooman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMikeJuliet Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Not sure if you had a mixup there, but 1 circle fight is the one where smaller turn radius wins, and 2 circle fight requires greater turn rate. Regards, MikeMikeJuliet DCS Finland | SF squadron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodooman Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 you are absolutely right mmj! my mistake. i totally got them mixed up :cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shonist Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 I tought it was me. lol, tried once to kill them, no chance. I7 7700k - Msi Z270 Gaming+ GTX 1070ti 16gb @2400 2x Samsung 850EVO 250/500 - 1x HDD 1TB SAITEK-MAD CATZ CYBORG FLY 5 STICK WIN 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reflected Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 AI on average is superhuman, AI on anything above that is a total UFO. I never set them stronger than average when I make missions. Even on average they accelerate from impossible situations, and decelerate in dives as if they hit a brick wall. Sometimes they lag sideways the moment you pull the trigger. Probably the worst, most frustrating AI in the history of sims, including the forever rolling AI of the old IL2. The new DM and their ability to black out will help a bit though. Facebook Instagram YouTube Discord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Swan Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 A lot of these complaints are the same complaints seen on the multiplayer side of fighting the 109. Yes new DM and blackout will help a lot, but one must come to terms with the fact that the 109 in sim is more upgraded than the 51 we have. As with a multiplayer fight, if the enemy gets a jump on you or you start out at equal footing, it is very hard to turn the tables as it should be. Keep practicing, you'll get there. Learn how to put your mustangs turn performance to it's max, and with enough practice, when he goes vertical you will eventually learn to identify whether you can follow him long enough to get some shots off or not. Also keep that speed up as long as possible! GeForce GTX 970, i5 4690K 3.5 GHz, 8 GB ram, Win 10, 1080p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodooman Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 (edited) yes it is a ufo. but that's it's only attribute unfortunately. if it wouldn't be ufo, it would be too easy to defeat. the ai simply cant be creative enough to match human opponent in such a diverse enviroment what dogfight really is. not with the computing power that's left to our pc's from the other physics modelling. and you, in time would learn the way it fights and the challenge would be gone then. so in a way im happy that it is a ufo. im afraid this will never chance, the fact that it isnt more human like. as we allways want something else more, eye candy, more detailed damage and weapon model, etc. there will never be enough computing power dedicated to the ai that it would become more human like. i personally like to fly against it only because it's hard. i know it's not realistic, and i have no illusions that learning to defeat it would make me any better against human pilots. maybe it teaches me thing or two about my own flying, meaning controlling the aircraft, but that's all. human opponents are, and i believe, will stay forever the best learning tool if you want to learn how to dogfight. and air combat in general, is much more than just "fancy pilot shit", alltough that's propably the thing that has gotten most of us to combat flight sims in the beginning as it's romantic by it's nature:smilewink: and the thing we like about movies and books. in reality it's more about being smart and avoiding unnecessary risks. Edited August 15, 2017 by voodooman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mporlier Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 here are 2 tracks against the mighty 109 AI Exellent. apologies about the zip file, they were just over 5mb limit for tracks so i had to zip them. crappy shooting in the -E one, i had so many opportunities to kill him :( but i think i got the moral victory still as i hit him, got his aileron and some other hits, and he didn't hit me once. prepared to be bored as it takes ages as he runs out of fuel (150liters on both aircraft). but it still shows the tactics that work against the ai, so it might have some educational value..? it's hard to shoot head on against the sniper ai, but on the other one i got him properly:D one must just remember to not be 100% head on to survive against the sniper ai. you'll see that even against the AI ACE it's possible to hold your own in the P-51. just remember, turn radius wins in 2 circle fight, and start your turns when he's slowest in his turn/climb. dont try to engage with every pass, wait for the golden opportunity ;) it's not easy i tell you, but it's the only thing i do offline in dcs, and im pretty seasoned against the 109 AI Exellent. I will look at this as I have yet to beat the dam 109's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzU Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Buy the 109. :) Buzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodooman Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) I will look at this as I have yet to beat the dam 109's... there is at least dozen occasions in both tracks where human pilot would have gotten me. the ai doesn't recognise often that all it has to do is continue turning, or just slow down instead of starting a climb. this is the lack of creativity that i mean when i said it's only attribute is unnatural ability to turn and climb. when the ai goes for climb, i extend, and try to look when it's slowest in it's turn/climb and start a hard turn, to force it to maneuver when slow and taking away little bit of it's acceleration advantage. i aim for the belly side to get our circles off plane of each other ("olympic rings") in case it doens't climb and just turns. that sometimes gives me a shot from my off plane circle, but usually it makes it climb. and when i notice that it starts to climb low in energy, and my position is optimal for attack, i use all the energy that i have to get a shot. if you look at the tracks with 109's external view and F5 (closest aircraft padlock) you see what i do and why it works. i dont consider this a dogfight practice as it wouldn't work against human pilot, merely as a videogame where i fly a plane, enjoying the challenge that the ufo ai ace gives me. for me it's fun:D Edited August 17, 2017 by voodooman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzU Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I was kidding of course. I won't fly anything but American planes. However, it is a struggle to win in the P-51. Against the AI anyway. I haven't found an answer other than always keep my speed up. I want the P-47 and just do A/G with it. I'll keep the P-51 for some escorts and sight seeing. It no dogfighter in the DCS world. Buzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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