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trim axis for TMWarthog


pierreaf
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Hi,

i ve a little problem with my TM warthog and trim axis. In dcs ive apply rudder trim on an axis, and pitch and roll axis on the button. But they are very sensible. when i fly the spitfire its very difficult to stay flat ..

how do you configure your axis, on wiich buttons?

i ve tried differents curves but always the same...

thanks in advance for help and sorry for my bad english!

Pierre

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I've never heard of putting trim on an axis. What's wrong with using buttons?

 

Assigning trim to buttons for WWII planes is a blasphemy :D. Almost all of them used wheels for that purpose after all (yes, Fw-190 is an exception, but a very rare one). It's almost as if you were asking why put ailerons/elevators/rudder on axes, while one can use buttons ;). Trimming via buttons is modern aviation invention, caused by non-direct control systems.

 

Putting realism considerations aside, though, assigning analog device to digital keys/buttons might cause other issues if the input "conversion" hasn't been programmed right. Spitfire is a perfect example - in one of recent arguments about the plane's controllability it turned out master Yo-Yo didn't see anything wrong with DCS Spitfire trims, because he was using analog rotaries to adjust them, giving him precise control and comparable times for full rotation of both wheels. At the same time, however, we, ordinary folks using Warthog buttons for the same purpose, suffer from wildly oversensitive rudder trim response and hopelessly slow elevator trim response, so for us the same plane is more difficult to control, just because someone did a sloppy job on programming trims-vs-button/key functionality (which is also very different compared to remainig DCS warbirds).

 

Pierre, I don't think you can do much about controlling the Spitfire rudder trim with buttons, apart from making sure you don't press and hold the button, but rather tap it lightly a couple of times. At least that's what I do and it does work OK to some extent. There probably is a way to change button response time using TARGET software, but I never felt like trying it out.


Edited by Art-J

i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.

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In Spitfire IXe adjust elevator trim with joy buttons or keypress is very slow.

Rudder on contrary respond more fast than should for be practical.

 

But make a test with that slider axis on base of Warthog throttle assign this for elevator or rudder trim and see if work better.

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I've never heard of putting trim on an axis. What's wrong with using buttons?

 

Have you looked at the controls in the real aircraft?

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Thanks to you all for the Quick replies.

i understand That a button is not the reality and a wheel is better. i Ve got à cessna pro wheel from saitek ,it is recognise in Dcs but i cannot assign any axis. I dont know why. Try a lot of combinations but does not work.

I use rudder pédalos too and here there is no problems.

I have look at many vidéos of training for the spit (Dcs) on YouTube and they doesnt seem to have that sensible axis trouble.but they dont give their settings.

This problem of sensible axis make my landing even more difficult.

I Will make more tests With curves .

Thanks so much for tour answers and always a pleasure to read comments

Have Nice flights

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Use the pulldown to select the axis assignment. Moving the trim wheel will not work, unless you sit there and turn it for a very long time in both directions.

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I mean this pulldown menu as marked in the attached image.

1853298396_axispulldown.PNG.edd173fad9d3c2d2f6625478f14b7788.PNG

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Assigning trim to buttons for WWII planes is a blasphemy :D. Almost all of them used wheels for that purpose after all (yes, Fw-190 is an exception, but a very rare one). It's almost as if you were asking why put ailerons/elevators/rudder on axes, while one can use buttons ;). Trimming via buttons is modern aviation invention, caused by non-direct control systems.

 

Putting realism considerations aside, though, assigning analog device to digital keys/buttons might cause other issues if the input "conversion" hasn't been programmed right. Spitfire is a perfect example - in one of recent arguments about the plane's controllability it turned out master Yo-Yo didn't see anything wrong with DCS Spitfire trims, because he was using analog rotaries to adjust them, giving him precise control and comparable times for full rotation of both wheels. At the same time, however, we, ordinary folks using Warthog buttons for the same purpose, suffer from wildly oversensitive rudder trim response and hopelessly slow elevator trim response, so for us the same plane is more difficult to control, just because someone did a sloppy job on programming trims-vs-button/key functionality (which is also very different compared to remainig DCS warbirds).

 

Pierre, I don't think you can do much about controlling the Spitfire rudder trim with buttons, apart from making sure you don't press and hold the button, but rather tap it lightly a couple of times. At least that's what I do and it does work OK to some extent. There probably is a way to change button response time using TARGET software, but I never felt like trying it out.

 

///TRIM///

MapKey(&Joystick, H1U, REXEC(0, 25, "ActKey(KEYON+PULSE+';');"));

MapKey(&Joystick, H1D, REXEC(0, 25, "ActKey(KEYON+PULSE+'.');"));

MapKey(&Joystick, H1L, REXEC(0, 100, "ActKey(KEYON+PULSE+',');"));

MapKey(&Joystick, H1R, REXEC(0, 100, "ActKey(KEYON+PULSE+'/');"));

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This is the line that you need to edit to change how long the key is pressed for.

 

SetKBRate(25,33);			// Pulse = 25ms  Delay = 33ms

 

Btw, those values are the defaults. Those numbers will be used even if the line does not exist in the custom tmc file.


Edited by cichlidfan

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Hi,

 

There are two ways to handle the trim thing, you can use the example from the manual that allows to trim the output X,Y axis of the combined device (page 30 of 62 - Axis Trimming):

 

	MapKey(&Joystick, H1L, REXEC(0, 100, "TrimDXAxis(DX_X_AXIS, -5);"));
MapKey(&Joystick, H1R, REXEC(0, 100, "TrimDXAxis(DX_X_AXIS,  5);"));
MapKey(&Joystick, H1U, REXEC(1, 100, "TrimDXAxis(DX_Y_AXIS, -5);"));
MapKey(&Joystick, H1D, REXEC(1, 100, "TrimDXAxis(DX_Y_AXIS,  5);"));

MapKey(&Joystick, S4, EXEC("TrimDXAxis(DX_X_AXIS, SET(0)); TrimDXAxis(DX_Y_AXIS, SET(0));")); // Trim reset

 

The other option is to have an axis dedicated to trim (will work only if the game offers a trim

axis), that you control through button pressed - RY/RX to be assigned on vertical/horizontal trim axis (adjust the speed and repetition to your liking, I didn't try it so I'm not sure if the values make sense):

 

	MapKey(&Joystick, H1L, REXEC(0, 100, "TrimDXAxis(DX_XROT_AXIS, -5);"));
MapKey(&Joystick, H1R, REXEC(0, 100, "TrimDXAxis(DX_XROT_AXIS,  5);"));
MapKey(&Joystick, H1U, REXEC(1, 100, "TrimDXAxis(DX_YROT_AXIS, -5);"));
MapKey(&Joystick, H1D, REXEC(1, 100, "TrimDXAxis(DX_YROT_AXIS,  5);"));

It's the same as above except it trims a separate axis (RX, RY) instead of the stick axis directly (X, Y).


Edited by PiedDroit
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^^^

Those were intended for a sim without trim controls at all. They do work but since they do not manipulate the cockpit controls they will not allow you to, for example, set pitch trim to a give value for take-off.

 

I used to use the first one as a cheat in another sim since WWI aircraft did not have trim controls.

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Hello again,

Just to thanks you for the good explanations you give. Very pro and the newbie that i am had difficulties at the end to follow.

But very interesting to learn.

Thanks to Cichlidfan for the pulldown menu picture. Help a lot. I Ve tried it and it works good on my saitek wheel trim. Pitch trim is ok now.

I Ve put less (70%) petrol in the spit's tanks and he fly better now.

Thanks again. Have nice flights and see you in the sky

Pierre

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Glad I could help. :)

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^^^

Those were intended for a sim without trim controls at all. They do work but since they do not manipulate the cockpit controls they will not allow you to, for example, set pitch trim to a give value for take-off.

 

I used to use the first one as a cheat in another sim since WWI aircraft did not have trim controls.

 

The second one is much less cheat-y, it uses the real trim axis but uses buttons to control it (if you're short of real axis on your stick) :D

 

If you know what should be your trim setting for takeoff you can for example:

 

MapKey(&Joystick, S4, EXEC("TrimDXAxis(DX_XROT_AXIS, SET(-21)); TrimDXAxis(DX_YROT_AXIS, SET(45));")); // Trim setting for take-off

P.S.: Bear in mind that TrimDXAxis() range is -1024 to 1024


Edited by PiedDroit
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If you know what should be your trim setting for takeoff you can for example:

 

MapKey(&Joystick, S4, EXEC("TrimDXAxis(DX_XROT_AXIS, SET(-21)); TrimDXAxis(DX_YROT_AXIS, SET(45));")); // Trim setting for take-off

P.S.: Bear in mind that TrimDXAxis() range is -1024 to 1024

 

Which means you have to work with the trim axis range along with the range of the in game simulated axis range to come up with the appropriate value.

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Which means you have to work with the trim axis range along with the range of the in game simulated axis range to come up with the appropriate value.

 

It's not that difficult to find if you use the device analyzer:

- map trim to any axis (it's easier if you set the one you intend to use right away, as in my previous examples)

- trim to take off position using this axis

- start the device analyzer and pick the value that is outputted by this axis

- divide it by 32 to get the corresponding trimming value.

 

Example: I map the vertical trim to my throttle, trim to take off, check the device analyzer.

The value is -1390.

Divided by 32, this is -31.

Now if I call TrimDXAxis(DX_YROT_AXIS, SET(-31));, it will set the axis to the same setting.

After that I'll use the YROT axis for trim instead of throttle. I could have used YROT axis directly and trim with the buttons too.

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///TRIM///

MapKey(&Joystick, H1U, REXEC(0, 25, "ActKey(KEYON+PULSE+';');"));

MapKey(&Joystick, H1D, REXEC(0, 25, "ActKey(KEYON+PULSE+'.');"));

MapKey(&Joystick, H1L, REXEC(0, 100, "ActKey(KEYON+PULSE+',');"));

MapKey(&Joystick, H1R, REXEC(0, 100, "ActKey(KEYON+PULSE+'/');"));

 

Errr... what are these entries, or rather, where can I find/edit them? Are they part of that TARGET thingy, or can be used with direct assignments?

i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.

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