A proposal for the "sound RADAR"

[philstyle]

Right bear with me... (there's a bear with you??!?!?!)

 

I'd ike to propose a "difficulty" setting for missions called "realistic environmental & cockpit sound".

Enabling this setting would result in the following:

1. Closing the Canopy of any of the WW2 warbirds would force the "environmental sounds" slider down to around 5% for all clients; AND

2. Closing the Canopy of any of the WW2 warbirds would force the "Hear like in Helmet" option to the "on" position for all clients;

 

The above proposal would also require the following other changes:

1. Oxygen effects on pilots would now need to be felt. Currently it seems that the Oxygen systems do nothing. I can fly the Spitfire at 20,000ft with the Canopy open and the Oxygen off. IRL I would be hypoxic by 18,000ft.

2. Having the canopy open in cold air should also have negative effects on the pilot. We shouldn't be able to fly at 15,000ft with the canopy open comfortably.

 

By doing the above I would suggest that ED can essentially remove the sound RADAR problems without doing wholesale changes to the audio-modelling in game as it is now.

Servers / mission makers who want to persist with the current sound environment can do so simply but not enabling this difficulty setting.

Pilots who want to fly low level with canopy open can still do so, and will "hear" other aircraft like they can now.

Pilots who fly at altitude will need to close the canopy now, and will need to have their helmet/ mask on (closing the canopy will "put the helmet on"), otherwise their performance will suffer (slower control response? blurred vision?)

 

 

Discuss . . .

Edited August 23, 2017 by philstyle
spaces between paras & spelling

[PorcoRosso86]

1+ Totally agree

[71st_AH Rob]

+1

[Echo38]

Even with your canopy open, you shouldn't be hearing enemy aircraft. In reality, your engine alone is enough to mask that. Indeed, I've heard from open-cockpit pilots that, with your canopy open, the sound of the slipstream does more to deafen you than a closed canopy does. So, counter-intuitively, you're even less able to hear things outside of the cockpit with your canopy open than you are with it closed, in real life.

[philstyle]

Even with your canopy open, you shouldn't be hearing enemy aircraft. In reality, your engine alone is enough to mask that. Indeed, I've heard from open-cockpit pilots that, with your canopy open, the sound of the slipstream does more to deafen you than a closed canopy does. So, counter-intuitively, you're even less able to hear things outside of the cockpit with your canopy open than you are with it closed, in real life.

 

 

I agree to a point, given relative engine sound pressure, wind sounds pressure and the location/ speed and sound emissions of other aircraft.

However, to get this "correct" would require wholesale changes to the existing sounds modelling. It would need to consider the idling situation as well as the fact that the game has seperate sliders at the moment which people can manipulate to simply work around it. Also, the pilot has a helmet, which needs to be considered. IRL we can sit in a cockpit without a helmet on, with canopy open and hear a lot more than with a helmet on if the airspeed is low enough.

 

I, like you, would prefer a more perfect sytem, but my proposal is a work around that uses / expands on existing features for the most part.

Edited August 23, 2017 by philstyle

[arglmauf]

+1

[Echo38]

I, like you, would prefer a more perfect sytem, but my proposal is a work around that uses / expands on existing features for the most part.

 

As I wrote in the other thread, there's a simple solution that works better; as one of the testers pointed out, the code's already implemented. All that needs to be done is for ED to make it so that each user's "outside sounds" volume is lowered to zero whenever his engine is at high power. It should be scaled according to one's power settings, so that the higher your engine power, the lower the outside sounds volume. While not 100% perfect, it would work well for all but the most unusual of circumstances (such as the very specific scenario I described in the other thread). At any rate, it'd be far, far better than the current situation (and also better than the proposed solution, which would be better than the current situation, but still less realistic than the easy solution I mentioned).

Edited August 23, 2017 by Echo38

[philstyle]

As I wrote in the other thread, there's a simple solution that works better; as one of the testers pointed out, the code's already implemented. All that needs to be done is for ED to make it so that each user's "outside sounds" volume is lowered to zero whenever his engine is at high power. It should be scaled according to one's power settings, so that the higher your engine power, the lower the outside sounds volume. While not 100% perfect, it would work well for all but the most unusual of circumstances (such as the very specific scenario I described in the other thread). At any rate, it'd be far, far better than the current situation (and also better than the proposed solution, which would be better than the current situation, but still less realistic than the easy solution I mentioned).

 

 

 

This is actually a nice solution. And at first glance it looks a lot more elegant than my proposal.

I'll need to think about it more, but I like!

[philstyle]

This is actually a nice solution. And at first glance it looks a lot more elegant than my proposal.

I'll need to think about it more, but I like!

 

I am convinced by this that the canopy makes does make a difference to whether or not nearby aircraft can be heard.

From a Helicopter, which is quieter than a spit - listen from 2:35

audible with door (canopy? depends on attenuation offered by the chopper's hull/ glass) open. inaudible with canopy closed.

 

[DD_Fenrir]

A lot depends on the frequency spectrums of the near/far sources - the helicopter turbines will have a very different spectrum signature, essentially leaving gaps for frequencies unique to the spitfire to break through.

 

If the filming aircraft was also a Spit running at similar power settings I would confidently assume the ability to audibly detect the other Spitfire would be far more troublesome.

[philstyle]

A lot depends on the frequency spectrums of the near/far sources - the helicopter turbines will have a very different spectrum signature, essentially leaving gaps for frequencies unique to the spitfire to break through.

If the filming aircraft was also a Spit running at similar power settings I would confidently assume the ability to audibly detect the other Spitfire would be far more troublesome.

 

Indeed, the feq range doesn't overlap, so the Spit should be even more audible from the chopper, than from another spit (assuming equivalent aircraft-body attenuation when canopy is closed).

The fact that it is NOT audible should be strong evidence in favour of turning off the sound RADAR.

I think the solution has to take into account the Canopy Open/ closed situation, especially at low airspeeds when wind noise is limited.

[rogonaut]

As I wrote in the other thread, there's a simple solution that works better; as one of the testers pointed out, the code's already implemented. All that needs to be done is for ED to make it so that each user's "outside sounds" volume is lowered to zero whenever his engine is at high power. It should be scaled according to one's power settings, so that the higher your engine power, the lower the outside sounds volume. While not 100% perfect, it would work well for all but the most unusual of circumstances (such as the very specific scenario I described in the other thread). At any rate, it'd be far, far better than the current situation (and also better than the proposed solution, which would be better than the current situation, but still less realistic than the easy solution I mentioned).

 

+1

[KorovaMB]

+1 This is a great idea/discussion. And by making it its own "difficulty" setting, it wouldn't be forced on players that don't want to play that way.

[Captain Orso]

I wouldn't go by the helicopter video as an example. At 4:00 you can hear the Spitfire while the narrator is speaking. And then when he stops, I assume he turns his mic off, because suddenly the background noise changes and you cannot hear the Spitfire anymore.

[philstyle]

I wouldn't go by the helicopter video as an example. At 4:00 you can hear the Spitfire while the narrator is speaking. And then when he stops, I assume he turns his mic off, because suddenly the background noise changes and you cannot hear the Spitfire anymore.

 

The point of the video is to listen to what he says about what he can hear, and not to sue the audio from the mics. The door is open by that point (4 minutes), which is what the narrator talks about, and is kinda the whole point of posting it.

 

Watch again, and listen to the commentary, ignore the "live" recorded and edited audio.

[Captain Orso]

LOL yup, I was listening to the sound and not the guy speaking.

 

Still, it's comparing apples to oranges. There's no taking into account whether the helicopter had any soundproofing, plus the Spitfire is flying very slowly (low power), with flaps down, so that the helicopters can keep pace.

 

I think the best idea would be to ask some of the pilots from the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight and such organization which actually still do fly formations of Spitfires. I bet they might have some insight in the matter.

[Andrei Dragovic]

As I wrote in the other thread, there's a simple solution that works better; as one of the testers pointed out, the code's already implemented. All that needs to be done is for ED to make it so that each user's "outside sounds" volume is lowered to zero whenever his engine is at high power. It should be scaled according to one's power settings, so that the higher your engine power, the lower the outside sounds volume. While not 100% perfect, it would work well for all but the most unusual of circumstances (such as the very specific scenario I described in the other thread). At any rate, it'd be far, far better than the current situation (and also better than the proposed solution, which would be better than the current situation, but still less realistic than the easy solution I mentioned).

 

+1 :thumbup:

[JallieFR]

+1

 

a good propostion ... but upgrade --> for all WWII aircraft

so

wait & see

[philstyle]

Dear all,

 

 

I have submitted the two offered solutions as a new "feature request" here:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=192716

 

 

Hopefully ED see it and consider it.

 

 

Mods: Close this thread now??