R-73 missile?

[pepin1234]

I think your question is already answer. All the MiG-21Bis in decent condition can receive the upgrades or part of the upgrades. Including the R-73.

 

I don’t know what you mean about a specific aircraft... as mention before Cubans and Indians MiG-21 received the R-73. I don’t know other country with this upgrade. The amount of upgrades have to do in what the client can pay or airframe condition.

 

As the Magic I was used in combat in Iraqi Mig-21, the R-73 was used by Indian Mig-21 upgrades, that standard that Indians called Bison but as all the airframe was not in condition to receive the whole Mig-21-93 upgrades some of the units lack the reinforced wing, canopy and sensors.

 

You are asking for a specific unit, aircraft? You always can call the Indian Minister of Defence and Cuban Minister of Defence for more dumb questions.

 

Your question is like: MiG-35 can’t be make in DCS with Thrust Vectoring because you still don’t see a single Mig-35 with this engines. Is a matter of what the client buy.

Edited June 27, 2020 by pepin1234

[Rainbowgeorge]

You guys keep bringing up the MiG-21-93, i dont see what your point is there,

because we are literally talking about just adding the R-73 like the Cubans did.

Maybe go back to the first Pages of the thread.

 

Again, the R-73 on the MiG-21 (if we assume the only necessary work is to fit an APU-73 rail and all hookups are the same for electrical/cooling systems) is not comparable to the R-73 on the MiG-29 or Su-27.

 

You will have no high off-boresight capability. It will still require you to boresight the missile exactly like an R-60 does.

 

Given the R-60 is already quite agile at close range, the only improvement will be a slightly further reach - maybe 6-10km versus about 3-4, which still leaves you outranged by modern blufor jets - and more explosive power. You might also gain a slightly better probability of kill at close range but it will not be comparable to the gen 4 Soviet fighters. If you want a good comparison, use the phi-0 ('longitudinal aim') mode in those jets or the Su-25.

 

 

Also i dont understand why saying that its not as good (as in for example the Su-27) because the MiG-21bis does not have a HMD is an argument for not adding it.

If you want a historic scenario from the 70s, restrict the R-73 in the Mission you are playing. You also would have to restrict R-60s anyways.

 

What about players that actually want to fly a mission that involves todays Cuban MiG-21bis`s against a more modern plane? I think there are plenty of people that would enjoy being the underdog but would like some more capable missiles.

 

Again, if you dont want them, restrict them on your server or in your mission. There is no

disadvantage for you. Maybe let people enjoy the scenarios they want to fly.

[Rainbowgeorge]

Yeah? 21-93 also includes kopyo radar, MFD, R-77 ability. Can you tell me about a specific plane or airplanes where they only added R-73 and nothing else?

 

I just want to see if there an actual reason, you have any evidence, to back up this statement you made “You will find some MiG-21 upgrades in India not called a 100% Bison upgrades. Not all countries with MiG-21 were able to have MiG-29 pylons to make this mod as Cuba and India did”

 

I have never heard of only a part Bison or part 93 upgrade, as it seems your argument that becuase Bisons use R-73 it’s fine to have only it added. I’m just trying to figure out if you have actually heard that somewhere there is MiG-21 where they cherry picked only R-73 from upgrade and if there’s evidence of it

 

If there is an exact airplane that’s just a Bis with R-73, then there might be an argument. But if that can’t be shown, u don’t think this will go anywhere

 

Cuban MiGs dont have Bison or 93/97 upgrade, and we have seen the pictures, thats what we are talking about since the beginning.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Rainbowgeorge

[AeriaGloria]

MiG-21-93 should include other upgrades like Kopyo radar and R-77, HMS and new HUD. The picture on first page does show a MiG-21 that can carry R-73, but who knows if that is the only upgrade on those Cuban MiGs. It seems hard to find anything concrete about the Cuban fleet, but i don’t know why the Cubans would only perform one part of an upgrade just for R-73 but ignoring things like HSM and HUD to actually make good use of it. If someone from Cuba says “we only added r-73 nothing else” then sure I would believe it, otherwise I don’t see reason to think the upgrade starts and stop at R-73

[Rainbowgeorge]

MiG-21-93 should include other upgrades like Kopyo radar and R-77, HMS and new HUD. The picture on first page does show a MiG-21 that can carry R-73, but who knows if that is the only upgrade on those Cuban MiGs. It seems hard to find anything concrete about the Cuban fleet, but i don’t know why the Cubans would only perform one part of an upgrade just for R-73 but ignoring things like HSM and HUD to actually make good use of it. If someone from Cuba says “we only added r-73 nothing else” then sure I would believe it, otherwise I don’t see reason to think the upgrade starts and stop at R-73

 

We actually know why they added them, and it was already talked about earlier in the thread.

They were expecting to get MiG-29s but they didnt, and they had the launchers, so they added them to their MiG-21s

Again we are not talking about MiG-21-93/97 or MiG-21 Bison or MiG-21 LanceR

Edited June 29, 2020 by Rainbowgeorge

[Fri13]

What a wonderfully well thought argument. I'm in awe. Also, our Tomcat is from 2019, and therefore all its avionics should be ripped out, like the B model Tomcats that exist today. I shall contact HB immediately.

 

Honestly, if you're going to argue for a feature, at least try to do so in some good faith.

 

You could start with a civil reply.

 

Secondly, the module was modeled after an aircraft that was already dated to that year, not to factory fresh or mint conditioned operational fighter from cold war time.

 

As you do not understand such a difference that MiG-21Bis modeled after a outdoor museum piece from 2017 is still a outdoor museum piece from 2017.

 

Only now the aircraft received design to be closer to cold war era, but that doesn't mean that we can not have missions of it flying in its condition at 2020 even if mission designer so want.

 

If the R-73 down require modifications, then so be it.... It doesn't matter that it didn't use it when it got released and missile didn't even exist yet.

 

So as you don't have good faith, I am not expecting you to understand.

[pepin1234]

We actually know why they added them, and it was already talked about earlier in the thread.

They were expecting to get MiG-29s but they didnt, and they had the launchers, so they added them to their MiG-21s

Again we are not talking about MiG-21-93/97 or MiG-21 Bison or MiG-21 LanceR

 

You must keep talking about one of the upgrades in the MiG-21-93. This R-73 missile mod on the Cubans and Indians 21bis have been taken from the MiG-21-93. Is not an indigenous Cuban mod. Was made by the MiG team on charge for that project. That’s why we must say this mod is part of the MiG-21-93.

 

As mention before. The same mod was implemented on Indians units that didn’t received the whole 21-93 upgrades.

Edited June 29, 2020 by pepin1234

[Rainbowgeorge]

You must talking about one of the upgrades in the MiG-21-93. This R-73 missile mod on the Cubans and Indians 21bis have been taken from the MiG-21-93. Is not an indigenous Cuban mod. Was made by the MiG team on charge for that project. That’s why we must say this mod is part of the MiG-21-93.

 

As mention before. The same mod was implemented on Indians units that didn’t received the whole 21-93 upgrades.

 

It still does not mean that the Cubans got the 93 upgrade, that was the point that was suggested.

 

I would also be interested in the general opinion on this topic, so i have started a poll:

https://strawpoll.com/dh7qf4of3

Edited June 29, 2020 by Rainbowgeorge

[pepin1234]

Also Cuba Recently received about two batches of last export versions of R-73. Will be so stupid believe those R-73 will be for the few MiG-29 still operational (I believe not more than 6 units). Obviously Cuba increase with this mod the carriers units for that Missile.

[rossmum]

Secondly, the module was modeled after an aircraft that was already dated to that year, not to factory fresh or mint conditioned operational fighter from cold war time.

 

As you do not understand such a difference that MiG-21Bis modeled after a outdoor museum piece from 2017 is still a outdoor museum piece from 2017.

 

Only now the aircraft received design to be closer to cold war era, but that doesn't mean that we can not have missions of it flying in its condition at 2020 even if mission designer so want.

 

What?

 

Where are you getting 2017 from? The DCS MiG-21 came out before 2017. The last real-life MiG-21Bis rolled off the production line over 30 years earlier.

 

There has been no redesign to make it "closer to the Cold War era". There were corrections to external dimensions and details of the DCS MiG-21Bis, because advances in graphics allow more detail, and the developers have more reference material to correct inconsistencies with the real aircraft. That has nothing to do with era.

[Rainbowgeorge]

What?

 

Where are you getting 2017 from? The DCS MiG-21 came out before 2017. The last real-life MiG-21Bis rolled off the production line over 30 years earlier.

 

There has been no redesign to make it "closer to the Cold War era". There were corrections to external dimensions and details of the DCS MiG-21Bis, because advances in graphics allow more detail, and the developers have more reference material to correct inconsistencies with the real aircraft. That has nothing to do with era.

 

I think his point is that the MiG-21bis module was modeled after a plane that was/is in a aged state and not in factory new condition, and with cleaning the cockpit he means its "closer" to the cold war aera. Sure he got the release date wrong because it was released in 2014 but i think you are not trying to understand what he is saying.

[Buzzles]

I think his point is that the MiG-21bis module was modeled after a plane that was/is in a aged state and not in factory new condition, and with cleaning the cockpit he means its "closer" to the cold war aera. Sure he got the release date wrong because it was released in 2014 but i think you are not trying to understand what he is saying.

It's a shaky argument to stand on though, if you're going to stretch it to equipment upgrades.

 

It might have been modelled in 2013/2014, but there's a potentially a vast difference between an airframe than came off active duty a couple of years earlier vs one that came off 25+ years ago and has been in a hanger/museum ever since.

 

As no-one apart from LN know exactly which airframe it is, it's a fair bit of assumption and speculation happening as to what the particular history is.

[Zius]

Also Cuba Recently received about two batches of last export versions of R-73. Will be so stupid believe those R-73 will be for the few MiG-29 still operational (I believe not more than 6 units). Obviously Cuba increase with this mod the carriers units for that Missile.

 

 

This is a really good point.

 

 

As it is, there are still a lot of countries where the MiG-21bis is their supposed "front line fighter". If the addition of the R-73 is relatively easy as Cuba's example seems to show, then it would make sense that other countries could/would also integrate the R-73 when it becomes necessary.

 

 

I believe that one of the strengths of the MiG-21 in DCS is, that it is usable for many scenario's, including Cold War but also assymetric combat, in different time periods, from the late 1960's to "modern day" 2020, with appropriate weapons and opponents.

 

 

 

I have no evidence but I would think that Syrian MiG-21bis with R-73 could be possible and then air combat scenario's between Syrian MiG-21bis and Israeli F-16C would become at least a bit more interesting with more capable missiles.

[pepin1234]

Yes you right. But also all depend if Russia provide the APU pylon or they take it from other MiG-29. Of course both cases for Syria pass as well for some others countries

[Kazansky222]

Yea I mean, the Cuban's wired theirs for R73s the Egyptians wired their for Aim-9P3's which I think is export verion of an Aim-9P5.

Somebody else put Magics on their Mig-21's

I mean if these old Mi-21's were wired for them why not have the ability and let mission designer decide whats allowed.

[Dehuman]

AIM-9P5 is an export missile.

A 'J' with the all aspect seeker from the 'L' IIRC

[pepin1234]

Another picture with the R-73

 

[Alpenwolf]

That'd be sick! But I wont be able to implement it on the Cold War server, I guess. Unless the F-5 gets the same (which is the case with Chinese F-5's, right?) or the AMRAAM's which the F-5 can carry. At least later versions of the F-5.

[pepin1234]

That'd be sick! But I wont be able to implement it on the Cold War server, I guess. Unless the F-5 gets the same (which is the case with Chinese F-5's, right?) or the AMRAAM's which the F-5 can carry. At least later versions of the F-5.

 

Let me help you with your off topic and personal opinion:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=211361

 

There are tons of post cold war servers out there.

[corn322]

Did you just try to tell him off by linking him to his own cold war server thread?

[pepin1234]

Did you just try to tell him off by linking him to his own cold war server thread?

 

R-73 mod came after Cold War. If someone want discuss about implementation in a particular server should be with people that flies in that specific server. He can do everything he want in his server as well people can do with R-73 mod whatever wherever they want to do in DCS personal design servers.

[Alpenwolf]

Let me help you with your off topic and personal opinion:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=211361

 

There are tons of post cold war servers out there.

 

I'd love to welcome it but only if the F-5 could have access to it too as it is the case in real life. Or am I wrong regarding the latter? So I was asking a question while celebrating the mod (hence "That'd be sick!") and wishing for the same treatment for the F-5.

But hey! Ain't your first post with such attitude as I happen to have noticed that in some. And quite often users go after you for it.

There is always that one guy, huh?

 

Take care.

[pepin1234]

I'd love to welcome it but only if the F-5 could have access to it too as it is the case in real life. Or am I wrong regarding the latter? So I was asking a question while celebrating the mod (hence "That'd be sick!") and wishing for the same treatment for the F-5.

But hey! Ain't your first post with such attitude as I happen to have noticed that in some. And quite often users go after you for it.

There is always that one guy, huh?

 

Take care.

 

You are bringing a discussion that have nothing to do with R-73 on

Mig-21. Your server is that, just your server and what ED can do with F-5 weapons have nothing to do with Mig-21 huge real combat profile up to these days. I hope you get the idea

Edited September 10, 2020 by pepin1234

[pepin1234]

The last picture was lost. Here a new one with pylon ready:

 

[pepin1234]

Different unit R-73 pylon ready in this case on the air:

 

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by pepin1234