104th Phoenix - Operation Longbow - Dynamic PvP Mission

[Alpenwolf]

... People don't even read the mission brief for what the mission is about let alone to get a radio freq...

Reaper6

 

Tell me about it...

 

My experience with DCS customers is that the majority of them are players. They just want to play. "Where they at"? "Let me at 'em!". "Check out my score" kinda of the attitude of most of them. So you can't expect them to read the briefing or stick to the objectives.

 

I remember some rounds earlier in BlueFlag we had a guy called Rocco who did absolutely nothing but sticking to the GCI slot. His words were orders! Some participants including myself (the regulars) when on TS or SRS we followed his instructions. He was not just GCI but also the guy coordinating the available airframes and assigning objectives any way he saw fit to accomplish a mission. No questions were asked, no objections. Even if some random joined us on comms he immediately sensed how serious we were so he'd either shut up (no stupid jokes or bla bla talks) or simply leave right away.

 

All I can say is, I miss that guy. No idea if he's still around in DCS. So the point is... You need a guy like that on comms. That's my experience. And I still experience more or less the same when flying on the Cold War server but not as good as it had been with Rocco on BlueFlag. I have a problem with connecting to 104th so unfortunately I can't talk about that.

 

S!

[PeaceSells]

I remember some rounds earlier in BlueFlag we had a guy called Rocco who did absolutely nothing but sticking to the GCI slot. His words were orders! Some participants including myself (the regulars) when on TS or SRS we followed his instructions. He was not just GCI but also the guy coordinating the available airframes and assigning objectives any way he saw fit to accomplish a mission. No questions were asked, no objections.

 

Sound awesome, I would love to play in a mission like that.

[Bersagliere81]

Tell me about it...

 

My experience with DCS customers is that the majority of them are players. They just want to play. "Where they at"? "Let me at 'em!". "Check out my score" kinda of the attitude of most of them. So you can't expect them to read the briefing or stick to the objectives.

 

 

They are also used to the fact most of the servers are pretty much plug and play. Most of the times it is just about flying there and expect to engage something.

 

DCS has an environment greater than this. Players should be forc.. encouraged to use routes and navigation beacons (without f10 positioning), and make every single bomb count if used properly. Not just about spamming gbu's and mavs

[Shadow KT]

Well, when I used to do GCI on the server, here, the comms were all about GCI calls >90% (if more)

 

When there is a controller, chatter halts. But when there are 2-3 people on comms and no real work done, people just start to talk to each other on global frequencies.

 

This is, at least, my impression

[AbortedMan]

SRS needs to be integrated natively into DCS World. That would get people on board with it. Communication is such a HUGE part of simming I don't know why it's so hamfistedly implemented/not implemented at all in modern games.

 

Same story with the Arma series. Why no one realizes the weight and limitations of communication that should be simulated in both DCS and Arma to provide astronomical amounts of depth and gameplay is absolutely beyond me.

[PeaceSells]

^^ But Arma, as well almost every game (in the last what, 20 years?) have VoIP. DCS doesn't...

[Shadow KT]

Well, there are ways to communicate with others (TS, Discord, SR, in-game chat), it's more about the mentality with which people play the game, my opinion.

[PeaceSells]

^^For as long as it depends on 3rd party software running in parallel (Teamspeak, Discord, SRS, etc.), it will always put away many players from using comms...

[Shadow KT]

Got couple of suggestions here:

 

Have a second dedicated GCI channel so work can be split, or at times it gets to 15 people working with the same guy and comms just get flooded.

 

Maybe split them depending on the plane callsign (in the ME) or this can be figured out somehow.

 

Switch ATC to UHF and VHF ?

 

And the BIG one... have limited platform numbers. Lets say the server has 60 slots. We split it to 30 active slots per side (for the sake of example). We can maximum 10 fighters, 10 attack aircrafts and 10 helos.

 

Would make for a better combat environment, I believe. If you wanna fly a fighter lets say, but all the fighters on Blue are taken, go Red and show em why they don't deserve that slot :lol:.

 

Active numbers for platforms can be modified from time to time.

 

Last night, there was a person from the Red team who landed at Sukhumi, which switched its state to RED on the F10 map, and another 2 people spawned at Sukhumi, I believe, without the base being officially captured with troops

[Terrificfool]

Personally I would hate to see platform numbers. What if me and five buds want to fly a two vic-3 strike package in the F-5E or Mirage 2000C? we'd likely have trouble either finding the available slots, or be stuck unable to even fly our sortie because those precious slots need to be dedicated to the top of the line fighters.

[Shadow KT]

Well, you will have to do team play with other people and cover your buddies, if they choose a striker.

 

It is just an idea with the success of the team in mind.

[winchesterdelta1]

Might it be possible to put a 90 seconds cool down when Choppers place manpads. It's kind of annoying that every time they are under attack they just land place the manpads. After the guy is shot down they pick them back up and are on their married way.

A cool down would be fair right? It's just an idea.

[Bersagliere81]

Is there a way to replenish FARP/airfield defences?

I tried to deploy manpads but they are "delivered" back to the farp

[Reaper6]

Might it be possible to put a 90 seconds cool down when Choppers place manpads. It's kind of annoying that every time they are under attack they just land place the manpads. After the guy is shot down they pick them back up and are on their married way.

A cool down would be fair right? It's just an idea.

 

I think the way it is it's pretty fair, considering it is their one and only defense in a transport chopper. It's frustrating to me too, but I understand the concept. And for some reason Blue has a couple AI AH-64D's, not sure what that's all about...

 

 

Reaper6

Edited March 12, 2018 by Reaper6

[DieHard]

Is there a way to replenish FARP/airfield defences?

I tried to deploy manpads but they are "delivered" back to the farp

 

I started at Red's FARP Eagle in Mi-8, picked up Manpad troops there and flew the hills to FARP Zimo to place them close to the FARP at Zimo.

 

So I unload Eagle's troops and FARP Zemo says I returned them to base and they did not delpoy as when I pick them up at the same base.

 

Mi-8 resupply playing Red side is a bit of a joke, eh?

 

And the Red manpads fire their rockets just one time. I sat in my shutdown copter not too far away and watched them do their thing. USA portable man held rocket launcher is only a one time use thing in real life back in the 80's . Please prove me wrong if multiple shots use does really work.

 

Would be nice to see Zemo have resupply capability or realistic defenses. Blue's Maverick FARP is the same thing I am pretty sure, definitely undefended there. Kutasi is pretty close by, though.

 

It is what it is and just have to accept it as it is...

 

Russian Manpad

https://www.google.com/search?q=russian+made+manpads&rlz=1C1BOHD_enUS487US526&oq=russian+manpads&aqs=chrome.4.69i57j0l5.14153j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Edited March 12, 2018 by DieHard

[Bersagliere81]

Other than manpads, isn't there a way to carry something else? I can see truck/shilks/whatever all around. Sometimes (often) destroyed and sometimes (rarely) alive. They must have got there in a way or another

[epoch]

I thought with CTLD transport choppers could ferry around anti-air defence crates .... ?

[Bersagliere81]

I thought with CTLD transport choppers could ferry around anti-air defence crates .... ?

It could be, but since I never did such thing, I was waiting for someone to say it is possible

[Reaper6]

Manpads can rearm if they are around friendly airfields/farps/ or supply trucks. You have to be a certain distance from the FARP you picked up the manpads, in order to drop them. You can only carry EWR(2 crates), right now as far as I know, as far as air defense. Which I think is useless at the moment because they are all invisible. All the other units are placed there at mission start, except for the ones spawned when you capture or in other scenarios.

 

Manpads can also be partnered with ManPad Comm, in which they carry an additional 3 missiles. But I don't think that is the case in Operation Longbow, it's just 2 Infantry troops accompany them.

 

Reaper6

Edited March 12, 2018 by Reaper6

[Goldrake]

I have been flying the Huey lately transporting troops and I can understand the jet fighters frustration with the Manpads. I am guilty as charged but I do believe it is fairly realistic. The name of the game, at least for me, is to avoid detection and infiltrate enemy positions with troops. If I do get spotted ... most, if not all, of the time I am dead before I can even react (Reaper6 :music_whistling::thumbup:). If a Heli transport pilot manages to drop troops, when attacked, please give the guy credit for being able to land (and not crash) under pressure (it is not as easy at it sounds). No warning device of any kind and all visual flying. Please keep this in mind. We don't get the stat for the kill but in a way it should be credited somewhat. If you attack a transport Heli and miss on that first pass then you should change your attack strategy for your second pass. You have time to tactically re position. Once deployed to the field I cannot pickup my Manpad team again. Is Red able to do this? I can confirm on Blue side that if you drop your troops too close to the Farp they will run back toward the Farp and position themselves around the center of the Farp and just bunch up for an easy target. If you deploy them even closer then, yes, they are returned to base but that means that you are within the Farp's pickup zone and should not drop them there. If you drop them at a Farp and they are returned to base, just load them up again without lifting off the ground and re position yourself further out. If you see them running back to the Farp, get another team and drop them further out until they stay in place. Then you know the min distance you should be from a Farp for surgical placement. As far as ammo, I have seen the Blue Manpads fire at least 2 per team so if the Red Manpads do not fire more than one than it is either a bug or night time. I would love to transport rearmament to an infantry team in the field, but I do not believe it is possible at the moment so once their ammo has been depleted they are sitting ducks. JTAC crates are limited (pretty sure 10 is the JTAC limit per side) so after you've exhausted your JTAC's (which I think if you crash with one JTAC on board it may count against your total) there is not much left to do in Op Longbow for a Huey pilot but to attempt to infiltrate Manpad teams into enemy territory. I hope that not far in the future they will add repair crate kits for Farps, or something like that, in order to keep transport pilots busy but for the moment, once Blue takes Gali and there are no more JTAC's, it is pretty much 'be a PITA with Manpad teams and infiltrate Sukhumi'. EWR crates need 2 crates to build it but, from what I am told, it does not aid in the detection of the enemy and, on top of that, once you manage to drop two crates next to each other and unpack them, the EWR is invisible so you can't even admire your work. CTLD has a lot of stuff for a transport pilot to drop and build but at the moment it is not scripted in Longbow. Most likely the limitations are for server stability, which makes sense, and thus why Heli's are a big PITA with their Manpads. :)

[AbortedMan]

^^ But Arma, as well almost every game (in the last what, 20 years?) have VoIP. DCS doesn't...

 

VoIP is not equal to simulation of communications.

 

All-hearing God-voice (side/global VoIP) ruins simulation gameplay.

[Reaper6]

I have been flying the Huey lately transporting troops and I can understand the jet fighters frustration with the Manpads. I am guilty as charged but I do believe it is fairly realistic. The name of the game, at least for me, is to avoid detection and infiltrate enemy positions with troops. If I do get spotted ... most, if not all, of the time I am dead before I can even react (Reaper6 :music_whistling::thumbup:). If a Heli transport pilot manages to drop troops, when attacked, please give the guy credit for being able to land (and not crash) under pressure (it is not as easy at it sounds). No warning device of any kind and all visual flying. Please keep this in mind. We don't get the stat for the kill but in a way it should be credited somewhat. If you attack a transport Heli and miss on that first pass then you should change your attack strategy for your second pass. You have time to tactically re position. Once deployed to the field I cannot pickup my Manpad team again. Is Red able to do this? I can confirm on Blue side that if you drop your troops too close to the Farp they will run back toward the Farp and position themselves around the center of the Farp and just bunch up for an easy target. If you deploy them even closer then, yes, they are returned to base but that means that you are within the Farp's pickup zone and should not drop them there. If you drop them at a Farp and they are returned to base, just load them up again without lifting off the ground and re position yourself further out. If you see them running back to the Farp, get another team and drop them further out until they stay in place. Then you know the min distance you should be from a Farp for surgical placement. As far as ammo, I have seen the Blue Manpads fire at least 2 per team so if the Red Manpads do not fire more than one than it is either a bug or night time. I would love to transport rearmament to an infantry team in the field, but I do not believe it is possible at the moment so once their ammo has been depleted they are sitting ducks. JTAC crates are limited (pretty sure 10 is the JTAC limit per side) so after you've exhausted your JTAC's (which I think if you crash with one JTAC on board it may count against your total) there is not much left to do in Op Longbow for a Huey pilot but to attempt to infiltrate Manpad teams into enemy territory. I hope that not far in the future they will add repair crate kits for Farps, or something like that, in order to keep transport pilots busy but for the moment, once Blue takes Gali and there are no more JTAC's, it is pretty much 'be a PITA with Manpad teams and infiltrate Sukhumi'. EWR crates need 2 crates to build it but, from what I am told, it does not aid in the detection of the enemy and, on top of that, once you manage to drop two crates next to each other and unpack them, the EWR is invisible so you can't even admire your work. CTLD has a lot of stuff for a transport pilot to drop and build but at the moment it is not scripted in Longbow. Most likely the limitations are for server stability, which makes sense, and thus why Heli's are a big PITA with their Manpads. :)

 

I say use what you got! If you get to transport manpads, then why put a time limit on them to engage. I depend heavily on jet pilots being lazy, which in most(not all) cases they are. Meaning they depend way to much on their electronics vs tactics or a plan. Which is why I tend to stay away from bulls/Gali most of the time.

 

There have only been a few jet pilots that understand my tactics or the capabilities of the Shark. For the most part they have spent little time learning to fly, use the radar, etc. And then they think a helicopter is going to be an easy kill. I spent day after day getting shot down by jets in multiplayer servers(a long long time ago). Until finally I spent YEARS learning every single system in the Shark, learning just how far I can push it without breaking it. Hours and hours of practice in single player engaging HUNDREDS of AI jets. Hell I even purchased FC aircraft, A10, and others just to understand some of their capabilities. Now there are only a handful of Jet pilots that really concern me, and more than likely they have put the same amount of time and effort into their air frame. And for the most part you get tons of the "no way! you can't shoot a jet with a Vikhr, that's really suspicious". And they never realize the years and years you've invested into training to get to that level.

 

I made the mistake of coming up to a huey guns blazing a couple times, to not waste a Vikhr. And now, unless I've seen them drop a manpads prior, I shoot a Vikhr and call it a day. I've recently been flying more of the Mi8, and you have little to no advantage when a jet is around. I don't get mad when I have to kill hundreds of manpads teams around Gali, it's part of the battle. Transport pilots get no love until someone needs an airbase captured, so whatever advantage you can capitalize on, I say go for it!

 

 

Reaper6

Edited March 13, 2018 by Reaper6

[epoch]

Once deployed to the field I cannot pickup my Manpad team again. Is Red able to do this?

 

I do this in the Huey all the time. It's the Load/Unload Troops option (F1) which picks up already deployed units, not the MANPAD option (F4). Obviously, you need to be close enough to them.

[DieHard]

In Mi-8 I can re-pickup my troops if I deploy too close to my FARP pickup zone.

 

Out in the field I think I can also re-pickup the troops, but my memory is lousy, so need to experiment some.

[DieHard]

Yesterday I was at Senaki in Ka-50 on the pad and Blue was right there with a Huey deploying troops immediately when the Red ground vehicles (GVs) were killed off, so Red could not even start our copters.

 

When a base is about to change, have troops ready to deploy on the copter and rotors spinning to takeoff immediately to get the upper hand or at least an interesting troop to troop firefight.

Edited March 13, 2018 by DieHard