104th Phoenix - Operation Longbow - Dynamic PvP Mission

[ApoNOOB]

That is not going to happen, and why should ED put the work in, when there is already a free community version that works and has zero dev time cost. I don't want to derail this into a whishlist discussion, but there are a lot of threads about this already and afaik there is zero indication by ED to ever do this.

 

Again, we actually have SR, which works for most DCS users, if you have a persistent problem, fix it with Cribob. From the look of the thread, all the big issues people had were fixable.

 

On a more positive note, thank you very much, my brave single Mirage pilot using SR. I am really sorry, but just not doing GCI for only a single pilot. :)

 

edit: Also I don't want to argue with you, I realize my frustration bleeds through. Love your name. =)

Edited March 6, 2018 by ApoNOOB

[Shadow KT]

When ED implements their own integrated variant of VON / radio comms into DCS it will generate far more activity. Eventually, combined arms will be a natural ingredient in every mission, with players acting as atc, gci, Awacs and jtac.

 

But until then...

 

Pretty optimistic.... all the casuals will still not use it, or know how to use it

 

people don't have the right mentality for this sim, to do such coordinated stuff.

[Shadoga]

On red side, if at all, most SRS interaction takes place on default 251.0 instead of the frequencies published in the briefing.

:doh: Lazy bastards!

I'm with Buckeye, it's really sad to see a large part of the attractivity (i.e. realistic comms -> coop) of this great hardcore server/mission going down the shitter due to increasing times with a majority of clients totally ignoring briefing, comms & coop possibilities. Seeing 40+ clients connected with only 3 per side on TS and even less on SRS more and more often is really frustrating.

 

I would suggest more frequent and detailed automatic server text messages encouraging teamplay via comms plus broadcasting the correct SRS frequencies for each side through those same in-game text messages.

 

On the blue side, I suggest to consider changing the frequency plan to use 30.000FM for fixed-wing CAS and 140.0 for helo-internal coordination. Thus the Harrier in its current release could use both its radios, no.1 for monitoring GCI and no.2 for CAS-internal coordination. Transmitter switching between the 2 radios can be done through SRS.

 

On the red side, I would love to see a new frequency selection that allows simultaneous use of at least 2 frequencies for FC3 aircraft through the available default SRS radio frequency ranges. Currently only one default radio can be used to select the red GCI and ATC frequencies. Would be good to have a UHF for GCI and if you chose 251.0, you automatically include all the default-using lazies...

But then again, I don't know all radio capabilities and restrictions of all aircraft modules and it might be more complicated and impossible to apply my above suggestions.

I just would like to suggest to review the topic and search for possibilities of improvement.

[PeaceSells]

That is not going to happen, and why should ED put the work in, when there is already a free community version that works and has zero dev time cost. I don't want to derail this into a whishlist discussion, but there are a lot of threads about this already and afaik there is zero indication by ED to ever do this.

 

Again, we actually have SR, which works for most DCS users, if you have a persistent problem, fix it with Cribob. From the look of the thread, all the big issues people had were fixable.

 

Sorry, but I have to completely disagree... Having to download, install and configure 3rd part software will ALWAYS cause less people to adhere. EVEN if it was a ridiculously simple and instant setup (which it isn't). Not to mention performance. No matter how light and simple it is, more software is just more software and it's always more pain to have more software running.

 

I love the idea of communicating realistically over radio and even so I resisted a lot before installing SRS. Imagine those who don't care that much.

 

I'm sorry, supporting ED for not implementing a cool feature like this is just the wrong stance, IMO.

[dFlow]

I see it the same way. It is alway a step for people to install some sort of extra software.

In my case, I've waited very long until I installed SRS, but it was so easy that the setup and config is not worth to mention ... I would hope that ED would include this functionality.

Even if someone is not talking on the radio - he would be listening (hopefully) and hear the people coordinate about bombruns or similar.

 

Another thing may be: many people could be afraid of talking to strangers?

[Ciribob]

But then again, I don't know all radio capabilities and restrictions of all aircraft modules and it might be more complicated and impossible to apply my above suggestions.

I just would like to suggest to review the topic and search for possibilities of improvement.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tzd996zJ1t0heZ-t1PpL7vNUIZbXl7pI6De0GThN1Qw/edit?usp=drivesdk

 

This doc lists all the frequencies for all aircraft :)

 

Sorry, but I have to completely disagree... Having to download, install and configure 3rd part software will ALWAYS cause less people to adhere. EVEN if it was a ridiculously simple and instant setup (which it isn't).

 

Please give feedback on what you struggled with or how you'd suggest to make it easier. Then it'll be better for all :)

 

I personally don't understand this - but I'm incredibly biased. :) People are happy to download other skins and mods and I see this as the same as that and interested to know how to make it less of a hurdle.

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[dFlow]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tzd996zJ1t0heZ-t1PpL7vNUIZbXl7pI6De0GThN1Qw/edit?usp=drivesdk

 

Please give feedback on what you struggled with or how you'd suggest to make it easier. Then it'll be better for all :)

 

 

The thing is that this is a tool which some people do not understand or are 'afraid' of using, just because its third party and you have to 'configure' it.

This keeps a good amount of potential players from using it.

 

If a system is encapsuled inside the sim itself, with the same functionality, then I believe it would be more used, just because no extra application needs to be started.

 

 

A skin for a plane in your example is easy to understand for everyone. You put the skin in 'that folder' and you are ready to go ...

[Ciribob]

The thing is that this is a tool which some people do not understand or are 'afraid' of using, just because its third party and you have to 'configure' it.

This keeps a good amount of potential players from using it.

 

If a system is encapsuled inside the sim itself, with the same functionality, then I believe it would be more used, just because no extra application needs to be started.

 

 

A skin for a plane in your example is easy to understand for everyone. You put the skin in 'that folder' and you are ready to go ...

 

I understand that it would be easier if it's integrated.

 

What I'm looking for is suggestions or feedback on where people struggled.

 

Finding the download

 

Using then installer (hit install :p)

 

Configuring controls etc

 

If you check the SRS thread - I get zero suggestions on how to make the process easier

That may be because there isn't much more I can do, or people are afraid of being critical. Not sure - but more can always be done.

 

Even better would be to pitch in - help make a video, doc edit the wiki etc. This is a project for the community but on the whole it's just me which isn't sustainable :)

 

All I ask is if you struggle, tell me why and offer a suggestion of improvement. I put a lot of work into it so it's a shame when people are hesitant to use it and I want to solve that if I can.

 

I really don't see it as harder than a skin - download - extract - run installer. It has one straight step over a skin, the installer. The only button you have to configure is PTT. Obviously it can be harder if you want to configure or have a lot of have issues with Dcs but fundamentally it should take 30 seconds to do.

 

 

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Edited March 7, 2018 by Ciribob

[dFlow]

I understand that it would be easier if it's integrated.

 

 

If you check the SRS thread - I get zero suggestions on how to make the process easier

That may be because there isn't much more I can do, or people are afraid of being critical. Not sure - but more can always be done.

 

Even better would be to pitc

 

For me it isn't a problem, but I think it is the will of people which is missing to 'install' a tool which has to be startet 'separately from DCS'

 

suggestion as maybe-feature: maybe if SRS could be integrated into dcs as some sort of module (just as tacview) which is started by the dcs process and connects to srs servers automatically (ok connection is done automatically, but its about starting the thing) - this would make it easier to use.

Downloading and installing is a step which you cannot take from the people...

 

the other things which are 'talking online to people which you don't know' is another problem which you cannot solve with the software ;)

[Ciribob]

For me it isn't a problem, but I think it is the will of people which is missing to 'install' a tool which has to be startet 'separately from DCS'

 

suggestion as maybe-feature: maybe if SRS could be integrated into dcs as some sort of module (just as tacview) which is started by the dcs process and connects to srs servers automatically (ok connection is done automatically, but its about starting the thing).

 

the other things which are 'talking online to people which you don't know' is another problem which you cannot solve with the software ;)

It can be done - but is it really that hard to start the radio?

 

Glad to hear it was easy for you :)

 

Thanks though! I'll have a think about it. I would mostly worry that starting it automatically would piss people off.

 

Could start automatically with windows too, but assume that would be more annoying.

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[dFlow]

It can be done - but is it really that hard to start the radio?

 

Glad to hear it was easy for you :)

 

not that hard isn't it?

If you are able to start / fly a plane, bomb things, land it ... you should be able to install a piece of software :D

 

 

This was just my input - my 2cents about this very good addon for a great sim ;)

Thank you for your time and effort!

[Ciribob]

not that hard isn't it?

If you are able to start / fly a plane, bomb things, land it ... you should be able to install a piece of software :D

 

 

This was just my input - my 2cents about this very good addon for a great sim ;)

Thank you for your time and effort!

No worries, thank you for the feedback! :)

 

If you or anyone else ever has trouble - get me on the support discord here https://discord.gg/Ajzxqxj

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[hanab]

+1

 

At least only the Mirage should be in the Blue.

 

 

Fantastic work 104th!!!!!!

 

 

agree with these two ideas :

-M2000 should be in nato coalition au with F15.

-great work for this server !!!

 

:thumbup:

[comie1]

@Ciribob Hi man,

 

Thanks for helping the ACG Cold War Server peeps with SRS We are all having a blast using it.

Very few issues for the guys switching from TS to SRS.

In the spirit of feedback I have a few suggestions if you like:

 

1. Knowing who is connected would be a great benefit while there is no dedicated DCS integration. Like a client list when you click on number of connections. Then we can see who is online & check if someone is connected correctly.

 

2. The preview audio feature doesn't seem to reflect the reality of how you sound to others in game. E.g. If I check my mic in SRS it sounds fine even at full boost, in game I sound like a crack whore. :cry: OR Mr roboto.

 

3. Tooltips, If it's possible to add tooltips when you hover the mouse over features or text, they could explain what they do.

 

4. Visually I think it could do with a pimp up but that's just cosmetic and it's in no way terrible.

 

5. Now this is a big one for me... VR integration of the overlay. For obvious reasons :pilotfly:

 

Just my opinions feel free to ignore them :thumbup:

Oh and with regards to the full integration into DCS, they could just add an option to enable/disable SRS in options and BINGO, problemo solved.

Keep us the good work and Thanks again.

Edited March 7, 2018 by comie1

[Ciribob]

@Ciribob Hi man,

 

Thanks for helping the ACG Cold War Server peeps with SRS We are all having a blast using it.

Very few issues for the guys switching from TS to SRS.

In the spirit of feedback I have a few suggestions if you like:

 

1. Knowing who is connected would be a great benefit while there is no dedicated DCS integration. Like a client list when you click on number of connections. Then we can see who is online & check if someone is connected correctly.

 

2. The preview audio feature doesn't seem to reflect the reality of how you sound to others in game. E.g. If I check my mic in SRS it sounds fine even at full boost, in game I sound like a crack whore. :cry: OR Mr roboto.

 

3. Tooltips, If it's possible to add tooltips when you hover the mouse over features or text, they could explain what they do.

 

4. Visually I think it could do with a pimp up but that's just cosmetic and it's in no way terrible.

 

5. Now this is a big one for me... VR integration of the overlay. For obvious reasons :pilotfly:

 

Just my opinions feel free to ignore them :thumbup:

Oh and with regards to the full integration into DCS, they could just add an option to enable/disable SRS in options and BINGO, problemo solved.

Keep us the good work and Thanks again.

 

1 - Thats easyish to add - I'll add to the list

 

2 - Please try the testing release - its specifically meant to solve that

 

3 - Tooltips are a good idea, i'll look at that

 

4 - visually sure - needs a designer, I am not one :)

 

5 - There is a VR overlay - hit Left Control + Shift + Esc in DCS :)

 

Probably shouldnt derail this thread anymore - sorry!

[DieHard]

re: Message #411

---------------------

 

For me it isn't a problem, but I think it is the will of people which is missing to 'install' a tool which has to be startet 'separately from DCS'

 

suggestion as maybe-feature: maybe if SRS could be integrated into dcs as some sort of module (just as tacview) which is started by the dcs process and connects to srs servers automatically (ok connection is done automatically, but its about starting the thing) - this would make it easier to use.

Downloading and installing is a step which you cannot take from the people...

 

the other things which are 'talking online to people which you don't know' is another problem which you cannot solve with the software ;)

 

Now, SRS is not a problem. I think I have it down. And it works!

 

The learning curve for me for just about anything where I am teaching myself is usually a difficult learning process. At least the SRS forum has a good feedback opportunity, there are other forums and there is YouTube.

 

Main negative issue for me was within the current DCS-SRS - CLIENT ; GENERAL tab "Audio Preview" testing utility, my radio microphone was always on and creating any kind of button or switch did not occur. What I found out was going to the Blue Flag server and actually trying it out with the smaller radio popup --- "toggle radio overlay" . I found out using the popup utility the radios work just fine once tuned to the correct frequencies for the specific aircraft.

 

Other issue is, I never actually used the Black Shark's radios; so HAD to learn how to use them properly. And Mi-8 is relatively new and still need to learn its radios.

 

No worries now, except getting other people to use it.

 

Ciribob, you are one very intelligent guy to create such an outstanding creation out of thin air!! +1

 

===================================

 

I am totally self taught with using PCS. In high school our computer was the slide rule, we did not even have hand held basic calculators, yet. And I never took a dedicated course. And I built my 1st PC from scratch about ten years ago. So like any programming out there, I never even had a basic introductory course. DCS Forums is my classroom!!

Edited March 7, 2018 by DieHard

[DieHard]

I am flying at very 'Euro' times the last few days, mostly on blue, and there is ZERO communication between people. Especially CAP don't even react to chat, basically if people don't work together, there is no reason to even take off.

 

Please even if you are a noob, atleast react on chat. Reading the briefing in the first post also helps, since it's pretty obvious who didn't do it when we have everything up to Guduata and people take off from Vaziani area.

 

Edit: On red only one pilot on comms too, this is quite annoying. With north american pilots(or atleast people flying in that timezone) I have generally a much higher SR/TS ratio. :P

 

Been flying Red----side.

 

In Chat, typed, "Where are you guys working at?"

 

A smart a$$ comes on and says, "Novo" .

 

And clearly we were working much further south.

 

That kind of negative participation turns me off. And people wonder why there are so many lone-wolfs flying about on the Phoenix server.

[Shadoga]

Might have been true ignorance of mission goals, a bad joke or even just a mix-up with no harm intended... - I hear people mixing up Senaki with Sukhumi ten times per evening and I've made the mistake myself more than once.

[PeaceSells]

Please give feedback on what you struggled with or how you'd suggest to make it easier. Then it'll be better for all :)

 

Hey Ciribob! I hope I didn't give the impression that SRS is over-complicated or flawed in any way. It is really an excellent addition to DCS and a very neat software. You run it and you can easily see that a lot of attention was given to making it as simple, efficient and clean as it can possibly be.

 

However, my point was that no software can be 0% complicated. And we already have to have so much different software running in parallel if we want to get a mildly immersive experience in DCS... I, for instance, have running on top of DCS:

 

- TARGET

- Opentrack for head tracking

- VoiceAttack

- Discord (or Teamspeak)

- and now SRS.

 

From now on I won't use Discord and Teamspeak anymore, because SRS actually does communication the way it's supposed to be done. Still that's a lot of parallel software and that's asking for trouble. For example, Teamspeak conflicts with TARGET. God knows what other conflicts still await me. But anyway, SRS is a software that was worth to add and I intend to always use it.

 

But, since you genuinely wants feedback, I owe you my honest one. Basically, three things prevented me from starting using SRS earlier:

 

1- Looking for instructions on how to use it, I found a dedicated "Help" channel specific for setting up SRS, in the 104 Phoenix Teamspeak server. A radio add-on that needs a "dedicated Teamspeak Help channel" can't be good, so I temporarily aborted.

 

2- Later, I decided to give it another try and read through the Help channel's instructions. It says you have to configure your mic to specific values inside SRS. Why, if I already configured my mic in Windows and it works well in other programs and games? Aborted again.

 

3- I wanted to know where was the push-to-talk button, but couldn't find it to save my life. Had to do a search on the SRS forum thread for "push to talk" to learn that PTT stands for 'push-to-talk' inside SRS. Yeah, I suppose many smart/experienced players know that PTT stands for push-to-talk, but I didn't. And I would bet money that many new players also don't.

 

As you can see, none of those things above is critical issue or even a big deal. As I said, SRS is well thought out, designed and executed. Still these things can prevent lots of players from getting into SRS, IMHO.

 

I personally don't understand this - but I'm incredibly biased. :) People are happy to download other skins and mods and I see this as the same as that and interested to know how to make it less of a hurdle.

 

I couldn't care less about skins and mods in general. I have no mods, except for SRS and Tacview (if that can be considered a mod).

 

Anyway, thanks a lot for providing a realistic way for us to communicate, since ED shamely doesn't. It does fill an important gap in the simulation, and it does it very well.

Edited March 7, 2018 by PeaceSells

[Ciribob]

Great feedback - thanks. I'll rename ptt to push to talk :)

 

Regarding specific values, not necessarily, just use preview audio till it sounds right for you. The latest release changes the process slightly so this may not be required either.

 

Not sure I can solve any of the other issues, I'll try and do a super compressed setup video to put people at ease. Maybe that would help too?

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Edited March 7, 2018 by Ciribob

[Badlego]

I dont know if its mentioned already:

On Senaki, two Gazelles are called Senki SA342M but are L Versions. So there are 4Ls and no M Version there

[Shadow KT]

If you check the SRS thread - I get zero suggestions on how to make the process easier

That may be because there isn't much more I can do, or people are afraid of being critical. Not sure - but more can always be done.

 

 

What now ?..... I have at least 2 or 3 posts with couple of suggestions how to make the process easier and requesting features and none of them have been answered or noted.

 

There were a good couple of pages around them, where you hadn't posted anything.

 

I'll gladly link you to the posts or you could go couple of pages back on the thread :)

[Ciribob]

You suggested (even more!) controls - which doesn't make it easier as far as I understand what you're asking for :)

 

Other suggestion is different audio defaults - see previous post on alpha version which changes the process and might be better but waiting for some feedback before I release.

 

Apologies if I didn't reply to you - I try to reply to everyone :)

 

Again sorry to derail thread - reply in SRS one :)

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Edited March 7, 2018 by Ciribob

[PeaceSells]

I got one suggestion to stimulate SRS usage, but it's directed at server owners instead. Won't derail the thread. But people are not going to like it.

 

Disable Teamspeak / Discord.

 

DCS already has a chat window. You know it's the right thing to do, at least for realism servers.

[Reaper6]

Sometimes I just prefer to stay off comms, I don't like hearing people eating in the mic or talking about random BS other than mission specific tasks. Especially when I'm trying to destroy an airfield or fighting off a group of jets. It can get pretty distracting listening to a bunch of garbage and trying to fight a war at the same time.

 

 

I think I downloaded SRS a while back, and it seemed like a pretty cool addition. Only one thing though... People have to read the briefing for the freq. Or the mission editor needs to be defaulted to that freq(for every single aircraft). People don't even read the mission brief for what the mission is about let alone to get a radio freq.

 

 

It's frustrating when people aren't on comms, but I don't think that will ever change. There are even times I just want to do my "lone wolf" stuff, and I don't get on TS. Especially now that I have been learning the Mi8, setting up it's controls, and Helios for it. I just tend to do my own thing, not because I don't want to be of assistance to the mission but I am learning new things.

 

 

I think it's early and I'm just rambling. My take is if you want realism, join a group that uses SRS and proper brevity. Expecting everyone or even a significant portion of pilots on a public server to do it is not realistic, no matter how frustrating. Even when I'm on TS I'm usually off doing my thing(because every pilot thinks they know how to win the war all by themselves). But I try to be a team player most of the time, usually I have to change my screen name though. So I don't have a million jets looking for me. But some of the time, I'm usually off on my own doing a very specific task. I've flown the mission in single player tons to find the best attack position, where the targets are for a certain airfield, etc. I'm not sure if that's a sort of "cheating", but it has paid off big time!

 

 

I think you all have some really great ideas, but I think on an open server it's going to be frustrating. It's always a pleasure flying with all of you, some really great pilots out there! Even though I wish the jets would leave me alone, if I never have to waste a couple Vikhrs killing jets that's always a good mission! I've really just learned to be patient, landing and wait them out. So I have the Vikhrs to attack ground units, especially since whatever they did with the F15. Seems like it's even harder to kill them now?

 

 

Reaper6