real engine startup in Black-Shark??

[RvETito]

Once all of the systems and sub-systems are finalized, I will lobby for a new start-up video dedicated to you, AirTito. :D

 

You'd better start lobbying for the game itself:D I don't need to see another video about this. Just give me the bloody choper in my hands!!:D

 

Now seriously, I posted this(it's in russian) a couple of months ago in the russian forum when Yo-Yo asked me about it. He said that they won't be able to model the electrical system of the Ka-50 in it's entire volume(dynamic processes, different busses AC-DC, power suppliers, consumers, bus switches ect.), but in the future- maybe. I just pointed the essential procedures during start up, shut down and the most significant event that may occur in flight- rotor RPM drop bellow 85% which will cause automaticaly AC generators switch off and all the concequences for the helo and pilot actions in this case. I just find this to be very important for a helicopter sim- from one hand not being too complex for the average player to understand and from another adding great realism to the whole gameplay. I hope we'll see this in BS eventualy.

 

nscode, what was that about AIM-54???:) The first who does such bullsh*t to the lovely Shark deserves a lifetime banning from all forums and online servers without any mercy!!!:D But I won't be surprised if sooner or later there are online messages like "RED XXX(Ka-50) killed BLUE YYY(F-15C) with AIM-54"...:D

[504Goon]

"RED XXX(Ka-50) killed BLUE YYY(F-15C) with AIM-54"...:D

 

WAH!

[britgliderpilot]

You'd better start lobbying for the game itself:D I don't need to see another video about this. Just give me the bloody choper in my hands!!:D

 

Now seriously, I posted this(it's in russian) a couple of months ago in the russian forum when Yo-Yo asked me about it. He said that they won't be able to model the electrical system of the Ka-50 in it's entire volume(dynamic processes, different busses AC-DC, power suppliers, consumers, bus switches ect.), but in the future- maybe. I just pointed the essential procedures during start up, shut down and the most significant event that may occur in flight- rotor RPM drop bellow 85% which will cause automaticaly AC generators switch off and all the concequences for the helo and pilot actions in this case. I just find this to be very important for a helicopter sim- from one hand not being too complex for the average player to understand and from another adding great realism to the whole gameplay. I hope we'll see this in BS eventualy.

 

The minimum rotor RPM for the Ka50 as marked on the dials in the BS cockpit is 80% - is this the same as the Ka32?

 

Seems odd that min rotor speed is less than that at which the generators cut out. Not that you'd get there in normal operation, requires seriously heavy loads or single-engine operation . . . .

[Aeroscout]

WAH!

 

lol, Now just put that on the Black shark when it comes out.

 

and why would you need the AIM-54 on the Su-25? The AIM-54's not even russian. :D

[Kuky]

Man I hate when I see people use bull$### loadout like this... two days ago I saw a guy loading AIM-54 on the F-15... that was it for me and I just left the server... don't wanna deal with "kids" like that.

 

I hope ED prevent this kind of thing happening by not allowing any fiction loadouts...

[theGozr]

ok it's almost march, where is Black Shark? no new movie updates?

[Olgerd]

If it has been fixed then it must be much longer. In this movie there were missing essential things:

- no APU operation- the APU needs to be started, then left running for at least 1 min to get optimal temperature, then both engines start-up with 1 min cooling pause between them and finaly 1 min cooling before shut it down;

- unrealistic main engines operation- in this movie you start both engines simultaneously which is absolutely impossible IRL. Then you turn on AC generators while at idle power-errrrrr! In order to have generators online rotor RPM must be above 85% which means AUTO mode for both engines.

- unrealistic elecrical system operation- no rectifiers on, inverters must be in manual before having generators on and after that you switch inverters to AUTO; later when you shut engines down everything is reverse- rectifiers off, inverters to MANUAL, generators off, engines control levers from AUTO to IDLE;

 

Just one question. Why you are not in our beta-team yet? And another question. Would it be interesting for you to join us?

[EvilBivol-1]

:thumbup:

[fragal]

yeh!! :thumbup:

[Force_Feedback]

WAH!

 

Care to explain how it's done? I tried editing the meint for the su-25 and su25T, but the game removed them (like Shrikes on the su-25t). You can pm me if you want. I do this editing only offline, heck, I never even play online anymore, experimenting offline is better.

[RvETito]

Just one question. Why you are not in our beta-team yet? And another question. Would it be interesting for you to join us?

 

Olgerd, check PM ;)

[Yo-Yo]

If it has been fixed then it must be much longer. In this movie there were missing essential things:

- no APU operation- the APU needs to be started, then left running for at least 1 min to get optimal temperature, then both engines start-up with 1 min cooling pause between them and finaly 1 min cooling before shut it down;

- unrealistic main engines operation- in this movie you start both engines simultaneously which is absolutely impossible IRL. Then you turn on AC generators while at idle power-errrrrr! In order to have generators online rotor RPM must be above 85% which means AUTO mode for both engines.

- unrealistic elecrical system operation- no rectifiers on, inverters must be in manual before having generators on and after that you switch inverters to AUTO; later when you shut engines down everything is reverse- rectifiers off, inverters to MANUAL, generators off, engines control levers from AUTO to IDLE;

 

The movie is very, very old... engines, APU now function as in real life. Electric now is not so detailed but is about to be modelled soon.

[RvETito]

The minimum rotor RPM for the Ka50 as marked on the dials in the BS cockpit is 80% - is this the same as the Ka32?

 

In the Ka-32 there are green, yellow and red sectors of the rotors RPM gauge. The green sector is from 88 to 92%, the yellow is from 85-86 to 88 and from 92 to 94%, the red is from 73 to 85 and from 94 to 105%. The generators do switch off automaticaly by their control units(voltage and frequency controlers) when the frequency drops bellow 400Hz, I can't recall what was the tollerance(in Hz) but the RPM is correct. Since the Ka-50 has the same couple of AC generators(and the same control units for them) and the rotors turn at the same speed(90% which is 270 RPM) it should suffer the same trouble at the same RPM. The other RPM ranges(73% and 105%) are limitations of the VR-252 gearbox of the Ka-32. I'm not familiar with the rotor RPM limitaions of the VR-80 gearbox of the Ka-50 and I can only guess that the 80% is indeed a flight limitation of the gearbox.

 

EDIT:

Seems odd that min rotor speed is less than that at which the generators cut out. Not that you'd get there in normal operation, requires seriously heavy loads or single-engine operation . . . .

 

I had a quiet "hairy" experince last year with a Ka-32. I saw it happening- automatical generators off, rectifiers off, inverters on but the most scary than anything is the "zebra" as is called the flashing yellow push-light "Nнв" that activates at RPM 83-85%. Along with flasing light signal it plays a strong alert signal in the earphones and the more is dropping the RPM the higher the beep frenquency becomes. I can only compare it to an incomming missile alert... Something that makes me feel cold in a hot day and reminds me for my second birthday. We were very close to disaster that day, thanks to the very experienced pilot everything ended up "routinely" if an airplane style landing at 78% rotor RPM could be considered as routine... In brief, we had to shut down the right engine because of critical vibrations, which was due to right free-wheel destruction. Then it was a gearbox chip indication and the pilot decided to land it immidiately. Good thing we were above flat plane and not above mountains or sea...

[504Goon]

and why would you need the AIM-54 on the Su-25? The AIM-54's not even russian. :D

 

[sarcastic]if the F-15 can carry Aim-54 in HL, then i'm sure that it can be fitted to the Su-25 aswell[/sarcastic]

I tried to load the aircraft with S-300 for even better effect at first, but even LOPE doesn't allow that..:D

 

@Force

It's just an AI aircraft, if i set it to player, the aim54's disappears the moment mission is unpaused. I believe the payloads for both froggies are somehow hardcoded, and they cannot carry "illegal" loadouts..

[Olgerd]

It's just an AI aircraft, if i set it to player, the aim54's disappears the moment mission is unpaused. I believe the payloads for both froggies are somehow hardcoded, and they cannot carry "illegal" loadouts..

 

That is correct - it is hardcoded in Su-25.

[GGTharos]

Oleg, is there a possibility for making this happen for some other aircraft? Or at least, to keep the 'legal payloads' encrypted?

[Olgerd]

Oleg, is there a possibility for making this happen for some other aircraft? Or at least, to keep the 'legal payloads' encrypted?

 

Will see. I think that yes.

[GGTharos]

Or, well, it -would- be useful for the Server to be able to decide what you put on the plane ... the problem is that this still gets abused client-side when missions are not locked. Perhaps a better solution is to make the server-client mechanism for checking allowed weapons more robust.

[Olgerd]

Or, well, it -would- be useful for the Server to be able to decide what you put on the plane ... the problem is that this still gets abused client-side when missions are not locked. Perhaps a better solution is to make the server-client mechanism for checking allowed weapons more robust.

 

Agreed.

[MBot]

Sparrows and AIM-9P's only and you might actualy see me sometimes on airquake ;)

[GGTharos]

Actually, that's not nice. There's no rear-aspect only missile for Russian aircraft. If we were to go 'retro' and do 7's and 9P's then old R-60's and R-27's (no E versions, IIRC) are certainly appropriate.

 

If you want all aspect heaters on the Russian machines, then you also have to give AIM-9M to the F-15.

 

Anyway, that was OT. Hah. :)

Missiles will be worked on in the future; spamming will become more and more useless as seekers are reigned in and made smarter :)

[MBot]

Wait, your saying there is no R-60 (non-M ) yet ? I realy expected that, considering ED bothered to introduce rear aspect tech for the Papa. But it might still be comming, hoping the best :)

[GGTharos]

I am also hoping for the MiG-21 and R-13 also! :)

[Aeroscout]

WATCH IT!

 

Man I hate when I see people use bull$### loadout like this... two days ago I saw a guy loading AIM-54 on the F-15... that was it for me and I just left the server... don't wanna deal with "kids" like that.

 

I hope ED prevent this kind of thing happening by not allowing any fiction loadouts...

 

Better watch what you say. There are "kids" on this fourm. I my self am only 14. and I'm sorry, but I don't use Mods online, nor do i use Illegal layouts. (I only use illegal aircraft, and that's offline!)

 

I understand that this fourm is dominated by adults, but you also have to consiter that this game and forum is open to everyone. I'm sorry that I can't contribute to the discussions as much as many of you can, I (obviousally don't yet have a career in avation. :D)

 

I do however agree with you there. :thumbup: Online is not the place for mods and thus i also agree that ED should prevent illegal loadout mods.

[MBot]

Hmmm, the AIM-7E4 would also fit nicely to that package ( btw also THE Sparrow being used by the Turkish AF ) :) ED, would you bother add that old bugger if you get the model ?

 

Ok now we are getting realy OT :) On the other hand I have no idea what to add to the engine startup topic...