CV Landing Advise needed

[Ragnar65]

Guys,

today tried some carrier landings. Didn´t work well. :-( I hear permanent warnring beeps, but don´t know why... Steering seems way too much sensitive, it´s almost impossible for me to keep the bird leveled in the groove. Trackfile attached...

 

Any help will be much appreciated.

 

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Stefan

Recovery Ragnar.trk

[javelina1]

learned a lot just viewing this:

 

 

[Habu_69]

I flew the VRS F/A-18E for several hundred hours practicing CVN ops. Different sim, of course but with many similarities, including throttle control as the key for successful traps. F/A-18C is a heavy airplane with lots of inertia. The only way to become proficient at carrier landings is LOTS of practice to commit throttle behavior to muscle memory and to anticipate when to add or reduce power. Become familiar with the cockpit, but0 there are no shortcuts to proficiency.

[Ragnar65]

Yeah, Jabber´s video is a real help... But I´m concerned about that constant warning tones... Can´t figure out, what´s the reason for that, no warning lights are lit...

[Hamilton]

But I´m concerned about that constant warning tones... Can´t figure out, what´s the reason for that, no warning lights are lit...

 

Same here,I created a mission (not carrier ops related) and I also hear constant warning tones with no warning lights and I don´t know the reason.

[Wags]

Probably your radalt or soft alts.

[Hamilton]

Probably your radalt or soft alts.

 

Thanks Wags :thumbup:

[wizav]

There is only one rule for 100% succesful landings

 

1. ANGLE OF ATTACK

 

That AoA pointer is telling you where you will land if you keep the course, aim well and adjust the speed, fly a bit higher and don't fly low.

 

Carrier landings are boring to me now because they are easy.

 

I am having problems with Air Refueling inf anyone is willing to help.

[Yoda967]

Stefan,

 

Nikola's right: You might be hearing the radar altimeter alert. You should only hear it for a couple seconds on final as you pass through 200 feet.

 

As for pro tips, my flight instructor drove this home every chance he got: pitch controls airspeed, throttle controls rate of climb and descent.

 

As Habu says, it takes plenty of practice to get a feel for how the FA-18C handles. I took a two-step approach to getting that feel:

 

1. I practiced transitioning to the landing configuration at 5,000 feet, away from the carrier and the field. I kept doing that until I felt confident with it. Jabbers' "no math" approach didn't really help me that much, and I had a hard time until I read a note in the NATOPS about knowing the target speed for your approach. The math is simple: A jet with no stores and 2,000 lbs of gas has an approach speed of 125 KIAS, and for each 1,000 pounds of stores and fuel above that, you add 2.5 KIAS. The FA-18C in DCS has an empty weight of 25,642 lbs, so plus 2,000 lbs of fuel means that at 27,642 lbs, your target approach speed is 125 KIAS at 8.1 degrees AOA. Let's say you're entering the pattern at 31,700 pounds -- your target speed will be 135 KIAS (4,000 extra pounds of stores and fuel at 2.5 KIAS per thousand gives you an additional 10 KIAS). Practice that...look at your weight on the checklist page of the DDI and practice the math, too.

 

2. I then did touch and goes at an airfield with touchdown markers (those broad white stripes on each side of the runway about 1500 feet from the threshold). Make two circuits around the field for each touchdown. The first circuit should begin at 350 KIAS and 800 feet above the field to set up the break turn, and focus on getting that turn right. Wags' VFR approach video is a must watch for this. Put the VV between the touchdown markers and keep it there. Use throttle to control your descent rate. As soon as your nose wheel is down, go to full throttle and half flaps, and take off again. Do it over and over, until you feel comfortable.

 

This works for me because a runway isn't an angle deck that's driving slightly sideways away from me while I'm on final...I can work on my flying skill before I add in the mind bending visual of that moving deck.

 

It's a realistic practice, too. Thirty-five years ago, when I was doing pattern work in a Cessna at NAS Glenview, I shared the pattern with a visiting USAF F-16. He was doing two circuits for every one of mine.

 

Once you start nailing those touchdown markers every time, go back out to the boat and see how your landing passes look.

 

Keep at it, sir. Good luck!

[Ragnar65]

Yoda, many thanks for your long response. (And thanx to all the others that made helpful comments).

By now i figured out that my main issue is the slow response of the throttle... while trying to manage the AOA-indexer with the throtle, the airspeed drops so fast that even immediate pushing the throttle forward doesn´t save the bird from dropping too much...

[probad]

hi op i watched your track. among the 3 types of beeping you hear, the most persistent one you're encountering is the stall warning because you're mangling your turns.

 

of all the issues i saw the most root problem is that you are tunnelvisioning way too hard into everything you do.

this is causing you to enter subsequent maneuvers under undersirable conditions, and your issues compound, leading to panic.

 

you also have major issues with how you're coordinating your controls. you make a lot of needlessly excessive and contradictory inputs. on the first turn, you pull before you banked and wound up bungling your exit speed, which prompted crazy throttle inputs that set up your upwind leg for overspeed.

 

you were way fast on your upwind leg, going some 230kt. instead of reducing throttle, you seemed completely focused on chasing the ebracket with your flight path indicator. that's not what flying by aoa means. so instead of interpreting the ebrackets position as telling you that you were too fast, you started climbing upwards... considering that you were already fast, adding altitude on top of speed is not helping the exercise of landing. all of this set you up for a really bad entry into your last turn.

 

on the final turn, you needlessly pile on full throttle going in, and then try to compensate by pulling harder on the stick to induce more drag. you're not really flying at this point, which is why the fcs is yelling at you with the beeping. in the end, your "turn" is not so much a turn as you hatcheting sideways out of the air as you attempted to stand on your tail. i assume at the end you slap the water because the fcs gave up and took control out of your hands.

 

summary of issues

1. tunnelvision

2. improper turn input coordination

3. incomplete understanding of aoa's role in flight

 

i can't stress how important it is to be able to manage your throttle without having to think about it, because you cannot be lazy with your left hand.

you also need to understand that you need to stay ahead of the airplane. corrective inputs need to issued before issues really develop, because acceleration in the air is slow and take time to kick in. you need to be in control, which means you fly the airplane so it shows you the result you desire (throttle down so the ebracket comes down to where you want it to be), instead of submissively chasing what the airplane is doing (chasing the ebracket up). which brings me to the final point...

 

proficiency is key to mitigating tunnelvision. you may be trying to run before you can walk with the carrier pattern. loosen up the pattern to give yourself more room to get everything right, or work on disciplined flying outside of the pattern.

 

ps. aerial refueling is solid for benchmarking your finesse over your throttle and your ability to recognize and anticipate what your airplane wants to do.

Edited June 3, 2018 by probad

[Ragnar65]

probad, many thanx for your input. Yeah, you got it right, i was absolutely focussed on keeping the VV inside the E-bracket... I gave it another try and flew the way i am used to from FSX, where i put the VV on the crotch of the deck (i know, i know, that´s bad habit in real life) and keep an eye on the decent-speed, and know what? I worked for me... Made a landing without banging the plane through the deck... :-)

So i´ll have to get rid of the bad habit and practise to fly like the real Hornet-jockeys...