Best Fighter Jet in the world?

[GGTharos]

You're saying a fighter without thrust vectoring can match one WITH thrust vectoring in maneuverability?

[TucksonSonny]

You're saying a fighter without thrust vectoring can match one WITH thrust vectoring in maneuverability?

 

In the case of ef2k that is positive!

It can flip 180° like a coin (using canard-wings).

 

Even faster than a raptor can do this! (I have this from a RAF source)

[golfsierra2]

I still don't think that for the latest generation fighter aircraft it will be important how they perfom in dogfights.

 

Nowadays, if you can see your oponent, something really went wrong - he should have been killed way, way out before......

[GGTharos]

In the case of ef2k that is positive!

It can flip 180° like a coin (using it canard-wings).

 

Even faster than a raptor can do this! (I have this from a RAF source)

 

Cool :)

[GGTharos]

What about intercepts requiring VID?

 

I still don't think that for the latest generation fighter aircraft it will be important how they perfom in dogfights.

 

Nowadays, if you can see your oponent, something really went wrong - he should have been killed way, way out before......

[mikoyan]

The f-22 doesn't have 3d vectoring. I think that the f-22 raptor would have a difficult fight with a su-30, but if the raptor can use the superior tWr to kill the su-30.

 

Although the raptor has great aoa performance, it seems that its pitch rate is lower than the sukhoi. The cobra like maneuvers in the raptor are very slow compared with the su-30.

I wonder if the f-22 wings create more drag at high alpha than a wing like the su-30

[TucksonSonny]

Cool :)

 

 

But indeed sustained AoA 60° for the raptor…;)

[GGTharos]

Not a fun thing ... it could really ruin your day with good old gunzo ... :D

[GGTharos]

The f-22 doesn't have 3d vectoring. I think that the f-22 raptor would have a difficult fight with a su-30, but if the raptor can use the superior tWr to kill the su-30.

 

This isn't an issue; the F-22 has demonstrated that it can match similar maneuvers anyway. It just took some clever FBW programming (AFAIK).

Although the raptor has great aoa performance, it seems that its pitch rate is lower than the sukhoi. The cobra like maneuvers in the raptor are very slow compared with the su-30.

 

Maybe they are not being done at optimal speed but rather at a speed where you'd think it would drop out of the sky if it tried? And maybe you're right - I don't know.

 

I wonder if the f-22 wings create more drag at high alpha than a wing like the su-30

 

 

If the wing area is larger then probably yes.

[tflash]

The F-22 is not in a turning fight, but in an angles fight.

 

Its overal superior speed regime means it can zoom and beam whatever to a good position and can reduce attack angles towards enemy aircraft so that they cannot come into a good firing position.

 

My guess would be the Typhoon leads the pack, but not by such a big margin, but that F-22 really is playing in another competition alltogether.

 

Thinking that a confrontation between a Typhoon and an F-16 Block 52+ is a done deal seems to me a mistake. F-22 vs. F-16 IS a done deal.

 

I vote for Typhoon in Lockon 3.0, F-22 would render the game totally boring: the map is just to small compared to the airspace an F-22 can dominate.

[TucksonSonny]

The F-22 is not in a turning fight, but in an angles fight.

 

Its overal superior speed regime means it can zoom and beam whatever to a good position and can reduce attack angles towards enemy aircraft so that they cannot come into a good firing position.

 

My guess would be the Typhoon leads the pack, but not by such a big margin, but that F-22 really is playing in another competition alltogether.

 

Thinking that a confrontation between a Typhoon and an F-16 Block 52+ is a done deal seems to me a mistake. F-22 vs. F-16 IS a done deal.

 

I vote for Typhoon in Lockon 3.0, F-22 would render the game totally boring: the map is just to small compared to the airspace an F-22 can dominate.

 

Sometimes it is about these little details: new typhoon suits permit longer 9G turns for the pilots ;)

(What if your pilot blacks out in his super plane?)

[S77th-konkussion]

Sometimes it is about these little details: new typhoon suits permit longer 9G turns for the pilots ;)

(What if your pilot blacks out in his super plane?)

 

What if the pilot "A" can't hack 9 g's longer than pilot "B" regardless of the g-suit? Tolerance to G's is an individual thing that will vary. They are required to pass a minimum level to maintain flight status.

[Pilotasso]

The f-22 doesn't have 3d vectoring. I think that the f-22 raptor would have a difficult fight with a su-30, but if the raptor can use the superior tWr to kill the su-30.

 

Although the raptor has great aoa performance, it seems that its pitch rate is lower than the sukhoi. The cobra like maneuvers in the raptor are very slow compared with the su-30.

I wonder if the f-22 wings create more drag at high alpha than a wing like the su-30

 

 

I think your mistakened wheres the Su-30 can deflect its engines sideways the Raptor can use its huge power to engage differential thrust, aided by large controll surfaces it wont have any difficulty to move the nose arround. If you doubt this, then I ask: you think by deflecting the engines sideways isnt going to reduce the frontal thrust component on the Su-30? Use simple trigonometrics :)

[Frostie]

In the F-22 I wouldn't have to pull many g's to put my nose on you and fire a slammer. You wouldn't even know I was there anyway.

But if 'you' didn't know I was there i'd slap you down first, hmm, plus my cock is perceived as the more potent weapon.:D

Its like every other plane bar raptor has flashing beacons.

[nscode]

I think your mistakened wheres the Su-30 can deflect its engines sideways the Raptor can use its huge power to engage differential thrust

 

That is much much slower ;)

[Cosmonaut]

I still don't think that for the latest generation fighter aircraft it will be important how they perfom in dogfights.

 

Nowadays, if you can see your oponent, something really went wrong - he should have been killed way, way out before......

 

The "if you can see your opponent something went wrong" idea also has many real life limitations. Just trying to IFF can get you inside 15nm which means in a few seconds you'll merge with the enemy and thats not even talking about a competent opponent that may be able to successfully evade one or two missiles fired at him.

[Cosmonaut]

I think your mistakened wheres the Su-30 can deflect its engines sideways the Raptor can use its huge power to engage differential thrust, aided by large controll surfaces it wont have any difficulty to move the nose arround. If you doubt this, then I ask: you think by deflecting the engines sideways isnt going to reduce the frontal thrust component on the Su-30? Use simple trigonometrics :)

 

Isn't that a little different though? Thrust vectoring allows you to roll around your velocity vector so you can be moving in a different direction to where your nose is pointing but using thrust wont just point your nose but also change your direction of flight.. Either way I don't think that type of sideways movment will have any real world advantages if things get WVR.

[Pilotasso]

3D vectorin is indeed better than thrust diferential but its not like there wasnt a choise, there is, 3D vectoring has been built and tested, just not implemented in any western fighter. Im sure the compromise is not big, besides there are other atributes that are far more important to combat than slowing down to do these stunts and then you become vulnerable.

[mikoyan]

My point is that the su-30 can point his nose on any axis quicker than the raptor, and I think that that is an advantage when you are in a close encounter. If you can point your nose faster than the enemy you can get a good opportunity to kill him, you can also lead his turn to get a good angle, but...the raptor has energy advantage dough.

[S77th-konkussion]

Point it's nose to where? Where's the raptor? And where do you get this info from? It's amazing how much wishful thinking is posted here as though it's fact.

 

If this is in fact true- fine. Show me.

[GGTharos]

My point is that the su-30 can point his nose on any axis quicker than the raptor,

 

Well that's just plain wrong ... where'd you get -that- idea?

The F-22 will happily move its nose about like a devil if you want it to. That's what the TVC is all about.

 

and I think that that is an advantage when you are in a close encounter. If you can point your nose faster than the enemy you can get a good opportunity to kill him, you can also lead his turn to get a good angle, but...the raptor has energy advantage dough.

 

Anyone can lead a turn. With the Raptor's sustained 60 deg AoA, no ONLY is he going to out-turn you thanks to that big, low-loading wing, but he'll gonna keep you in the pipper even if he blows all his speed away doing it.

[Frostie]

Its also true that the Raptor owning everything in the sky is more 'wishful thinking' than 'fact' , its never been proven , probably won't and nobody on these forums is anywhere near qualified(classified info) to claim its superiority and even less qualified to make opinions on other countries aircraft.

Peoples assumption of superiority mainly comes from a figure of 'head on' aspect RCS being minute ,is that really all A2A combat boils down to?

What is true every a/c has weak points and strong points its how an aircrew emphasise these points in their tactics which makes the Fighter what it is.

[Pilotasso]

Too bad his a$$ wont be in the sling up there to prove it :D

 

Bad prospect for average life expectancy. :)

[Frostie]

Sorry guys if it pains but im just making an observation that this is a poll of which a/c they think is the best in the list, not a what a/c can own all yawn mines bigger than yours cos I say so debate.

[S77th-konkussion]

Its also true that the Raptor owning everything in the sky is more 'wishful thinking' than 'fact', its never been proven probably won't

 

Say it with me now

 

"d-e-p-l-o-y-e-d"

 

How much action it will see is known to but a few- obviously they are not going to send one up for just anything. And before some of you go into your predictable "scared to send one in" crap- Why send in a Strike Eagle to do a job a Falcon or warthog can do?

 

I wonder what some of you are going to change the subject to when the inevitable day comes? Sonner or later the news that a raptor did such & such and performed brilliantly will be out there. Most likely it will be a mission that "it couldn't do" "was untested, unproven" blah blah...

 

Oh wait-I know. We'll go back to "It's ugly", right?