Deferred shading forced on in VR mode?

[twistking]

Not to start an argument - just a discussion, I bring the following up just out of interest:

 

Have ED actually stated this formally, or is the above an assumption from you?

 

If it's just about two sets of texture and material files, would it not be possible to programatically convert from one set of files to the other? I.e. not so much effort?

 

With 4XMSAA turned on, I've had a 50% drop in fps. I feel that this change should have been (ahem) deferred until it didn't cause such a detrimental impact.

 

 

no, it is also the complete rendering pipeline, not only the assets. it is true, that the old pipeline still exists, however supporting it, is the issue.

deferred shading is so different from non-deferred shading, that you could think of it, as a different graphics engine...

every new effect, every new improvment, every new hardware/driver integration would have to be done twice.

[Vannipo]

Your not in release either!

 

Sry? What do u mean? I wanted to say, that these settings can be found in 2.5.0, which I am using. I didn't know, that this feature has gone in the open beta, which is the version meant by this thread.

[imacken]

Sry? What do u mean? I wanted to say, that these settings can be found in 2.5.0, which I am using. I didn't know, that this feature has gone in the open beta, which is the version meant by this thread.

The release version also has no deferred shading. You are using an old version, which is not the ‘release’ version. I don’t think you even mentioned you’d were using an old version.

[Vannipo]

The release version also has no deferred shading. You are using an old version, which is not the ‘release’ version. I don’t think you even mentioned you’d were using an old version.

Hmm, what are talking about? What is an old version? Just name the version with a number. Release version... older version...

 

The screenshot I provided was made in 2.5.0, where u can turn deffered shading on or off. I never installed another version of DCS.

Edited August 5, 2018 by Vannipo

[imacken]

Rofl, what are talking about? What is an old version? Just name the version with a number. Release version... older version...

 

The screenshot I provided was made in 2.5.0, where u can turn deffered shading on or off. I never installed another version of DCS.

 

Exactly, you’re not using the release version, as I said.

[Vannipo]

As I said, I still don't know, what a release version is. I installed the last non beta version from the hp. And its 2.5.0.xxxx. However u call it. It doesn't matter.

[Hippo]

As I said, I still don't know, what a release version is. I installed the last non beta version from the hp. And its 2.5.0.xxxx. However u call it. It doesn't matter.

 

 

The latest version is currently DCS 2.5.2.19682

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3577049&postcount=3

 

 

You should be offered the option to update when you run DCS.

[ac5]

Everybody speaks about higher FPS,

but what about the most important thing, fluid fly

without stutters?

 

I am pretty sure after days of testing, that the main reason for stutters is that

some situations / terrains jump from 20 to 50 FPS or more all the time.

 

Either 30 or if possible 60 stable and constant, only this guarantees fluidity.

(for a 60 Hertz monitor).

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=216729

[Hippo]

ac5: you do realise that you're posting in a forum discussing VR?

[ac5]

ac5: you do realise that you're posting in a forum discussing VR?

 

I realize that. Are you suggesting that what I posted does not

apply to both VR and Monitors?

[Hippo]

Your post seemed somewhat out of place, as no-one had mentioned stuttering in this thread, that's all.

 

Frame rates in VR are usually synched to refresh and held at 90 / 45 w/ ASW Hz (Rift), so stuttering does not tend to be an issue. It certainly isn't for me.

 

I would also add that frame rates matter a lot in VR. I try to stay above 90 fps if possible, and would say that anything below 45 fps is unacceptable.

[ac5]

Your post seemed somewhat out of place, as no-one had mentioned stuttering in this thread, that's all.

 

Frame rates in VR are usually synched to refresh and held at 90 / 45 w/ ASW Hz (Rift), so stuttering does not tend to be an issue. It certainly isn't for me.

 

I would also add that frame rates matter a lot in VR. I try to stay above 90 fps if possible, and would say that anything below 45 fps is unacceptable.

 

OK, You are in luck in this case.

Anything else than 30 or 60 stutters like crazy with my setup. 120 is not reachable.

No way to fly in Nevada or Normandy, Caucasus and PG are most of the time OK.

[imacken]

Your post seemed somewhat out of place, as no-one had mentioned stuttering in this thread, that's all.

 

Frame rates in VR are usually synched to refresh and held at 90 / 45 w/ ASW Hz (Rift), so stuttering does not tend to be an issue. It certainly isn't for me.

 

I would also add that frame rates matter a lot in VR. I try to stay above 90 fps if possible, and would say that anything below 45 fps is unacceptable.

 

Are you serious? You try to stay above 90 FPS in VR? With a 1070?

Most people on higher specs are happy to get a constant 45! What’s your secret? Settings?

[Hippo]

Are you serious? You try to stay above 90 FPS in VR? With a 1070?

Most people on higher specs are happy to get a constant 45! What’s your secret? Settings?

 

VERY serious ;)

 

Yes, of course it's settings. In my opinion, for VR:

 

 

• >= 90 fps
  
• Decent anti-aliasing (4xMSAA)
  

are the two top priorities, all other settings are secondary. To achieve this I have to turn everything else to minimum. Without DS (2.5.0) I could get around 120 fps in the A-10C sitting on the runway - which gave headway for when things got busy. Even so, dips below 90 fps still occur.

 

I can not achieve this with DS, where for the same situation, my fps goes down to around 60 fps. Not happy.

 

ASW (which kicks in when fps drops below 90) should not be the norm for VR, but a temporary measure for rare occasions when 90 fps cannot be obtained. Another poster mentioned that they don't see glitching with ASW - I'd ask them to sit in the A10C and look left and right and check what they see around the MFD buttons. ASW does a great job, but it's stilll a suboptimal VR experience, and the glitches, when they do happen, detract.

On another thread I think someone said he was happy with 35 fps! Different strokes, I suppose.

 

Turning MSAA off makes the sim look so awful that I will not use it.

 

I realise my opinion is a bit controversial (another poster called me a 90fps taliban), but I would suggest that everyone try 2.5.0 DS off with low settings. VR at 90 fps is the optimal VR experience, and anything less is a selling it short.

 

From the Oculus SDK

(https://developer.oculus.com/documentation/pcsdk/latest/concepts/book-dg/)

 

Don’t rely on Asynchronous SpaceWarp (ASW) to hit rendering frame rate. ASW generates intermediate frames based on very recent head pose information, if your application begins to drop frames. It works by distorting the previous frame to match the more recent head pose. While ASW will help smooth out a few dropped frames now and then, applications must meet a consistent 90 frames per second (FPS) on a recommended spec machine and maintain 45 frames per second on a minimum spec machine to qualify for the Oculus Store.

 

The Rift operates at 90Hz. With ASW, when an application fails to submit frames at 90Hz, the Rift runtime drops the application down to 45Hz with ASW providing each intermediate frame

I'm currently trying to wean myself onto 2xMSAA on 2.5.2. In combination with Kegetsy's mod, I'm getting there on frames. Just very sad that there was no way to keep forward rendering as an option for a bit longer (F-18C). Edited August 7, 2018 by Hippo

[D4n]

I get above 30 fps mostly, apart from the 1-3 second server freezes every 10-15 minutes or so. (Luckily never on landing my plane)

[imacken]

VERY serious ;)

 

Yes, of course it's settings. In my opinion, for VR:

 

 

• >= 90 fps
  
• Decent anti-aliasing (4xMSAA)
  

are the two top priorities, all other settings are secondary. To achieve this I have to turn everything else to minimum. Without DS (2.5.0) I could get around 120 fps in the A-10C sitting on the runway - which gave headway for when things got busy. Even so, dips below 90 fps still occur.

 

I can not achieve this with DS, where for the same situation, my fps goes down to around 60 fps. Not happy.

 

ASW (which kicks in when fps drops below 90) should not be the norm for VR, but a temporary measure for rare occasions when 90 fps cannot be obtained. Another poster mentioned that they don't see glitching with ASW - I'd ask them to sit in the A10C and look left and right and check what they see around the MFD buttons. ASW does a great job, but it's stilll a suboptimal VR experience, and the glitches, when they do happen, detract.

On another thread I think someone said he was happy with 35 fps! Different strokes, I suppose.

 

Turning MSAA off makes the sim look so awful that I will not use it.

 

I realise my opinion is a bit controversial (another poster called me a 90fps taliban), but I would suggest that everyone try 2.5.0 DS off with low settings. VR at 90 fps is the optimal VR experience, and anything less is a selling it short.

 

From the Oculus SDK

(https://developer.oculus.com/documentation/pcsdk/latest/concepts/book-dg/)

 

I'm currently trying to wean myself onto 2xMSAA on 2.5.2. In combination with Kegetsy's mod, I'm getting there on frames. Just very sad that there was no way to keep forward rendering as an option for a bit longer (F-18C).

There are a few things I don't understand here.

1) even if possible, how do you see greater than 90 fps? I mean that is the refresh rate that the Rift is synced to. How to you turn that sync off?

2) using your settings, I get 90 fps sitting on the runway in the mission you asked about in the thread you linked to, but soon after take off, I am back on 45 fps when flying over the buildings near the airfield. (I am assuming you were meaning the PG Take Off and Navigate IA one in the dark.)

3) I am not disputing what you claim, but I am struggling to see how you can achieve the fps you are claiming with a 1070. What results do you get in Unigine's Heaven?

[Hippo]

There are a few things I don't understand here.

1) even if possible, how do you see greater than 90 fps? I mean that is the refresh rate that the Rift is synced to. How to you turn that sync off?

2) using your settings, I get 90 fps sitting on the runway in the mission you asked about in the thread you linked to, but soon after take off, I am back on 45 fps when flying over the buildings near the airfield. (I am assuming you were meaning the PG Take Off and Navigate IA one in the dark.)

3) I am not disputing what you claim, but I am struggling to see how you can achieve the fps you are claiming with a 1070. What results do you get in Unigine's Heaven?

 

 

1) If you look at how I test in my link, the trick is to make sure that the HMD does not activate. When I do that, the frame rate (on my monitor) does not appear to be limited - I find it's a very useful way to test for performance. As soon as the HMD is activated, (I suspect that) the runtime kicks in and you will then not see the counter go over 90 fps.

 

2) Are you running with deferred shading off, i.e. on 2.5.0 or below? I also get a reduction after takeoff. Please note that in my previous post I was referring to 2.5.0 DS off with an A10C mission. In the linked thread I was asking people to test in 2.5.2. I do not get over 90 fps in that situation.

 

3) I'm afraid that I don't know what that is, but I can look into it.

[Hippo]

Just ran again on 2.5.0. The mission is Free Flight over Black Sea region Runway Start. Here are the results:

[Hippo]

(IMHO) By the way, although the terrain looks better in 2.5.2. The A-10C cockpit continues to look a lot better in terms of sharpness and colour in 2.5.0.

 

 

And, for completeness, with deferred shading ON (everything else the same):

Edited August 7, 2018 by Hippo

[imacken]

Hmm... interesting, however I have no way of checking 2.5.0. It was a long time ago!

The thing with not putting on the HMD and freeing up the frame rate is also interesting. However, it seems like a moot point, as we have to put on the Rift to play!

I can only compare 2.5.2 results, I'm afraid.

[Hippo]

Hmm... interesting, however I have no way of checking 2.5.0. It was a long time ago!

The thing with not putting on the HMD and freeing up the frame rate is also interesting. However, it seems like a moot point, as we have to put on the Rift to play!

I can only compare 2.5.2 results, I'm afraid.

 

 

I find it very useful for testing. I can measure the effect on performance of changing a particular setting. Though it is only useful if you're getting frame rates over 90 fps, I suppose.

 

 

Not sure if you're using Kegetsy's mode. That gave me a 50% fps increase in 2.5.2 (for very similar settings).

Edited August 7, 2018 by Hippo