TCS abilities.

[OnlyforDCS]

If there's more than one target, it would be easier to target the one you wanted I guess?!

 

True that. :thumbup:

[Top Jockey]

I've never had to turn on the radar or manually aim the AIM9m seeker in any plane ever. Just uncaging the seeker and pointing the nose in the general direction is usually more than enough to get tone.

 

Exactly, that's also what I mean with: manually aiming the seekerhead to target.

(By "manually" it doesn't always has to be like moving some missile aiming / acquisition reticle, like in some Russian aircraft for example.)

 

The difference here, with the AIM-9 seekerhead automatically aimed to target by the TCS, is that it allows to spare precious time.

 

Besides, (I don't know much about the TCS resolution), but I imagine that also:

 

Could it allow the AIM-9 seekerhead to be aimed to target, well before the pilot's eyes see the target in case of slightly bad weather ?

(If so it would obviously be a great advantage also.)

[OnlyforDCS]

Could it allow the AIM-9 seekerhead to be aimed to target, well before the pilot's eyes see the target in case of slightly bad weather ?

(If so it would obviously be a great advantage also.)

 

It's basically a TV camera with a zoom lens. While the AIM9's seeker is a heat signature tracking device. I think in bad weather the TCS won't really have any advantages over your eyes really.

 

I think the biggest advantage of the TCS is it's zoom function. So basically if you know the general vector and altitude of a target (from an AWACS callout for example) theoretically you should be able to find him and lock him with the TCS from BVR with a bit of luck, and also depending on the weather. A cloud for example will obscure a target from your TCS.

 

It will definitely be a fun little gadget to play with in the back seat. In addition to the AWG9 which will probably be pretty hard to master there will be a lot of fun for potential RIOs there.

 

Im definitely going to explore both seats in detail, though I feel everyone will want to fly the jet first myself included.

 

I hope Heatblur intends to release RIO training missions and scenarios at some point during early access. In fact Im gonna start a new thread asking that very same question. :)

Edited December 27, 2018 by OnlyforDCS

[Naquaii]

A pure TCS track is in many cases equal to a HOJ lock in that the WCS knows elevation and azimuth to the target which can be used to slave a missile to that target.

 

The AIM-9 can, like you've discussed be slaved to that target, exactly as with a radar lock minus the range information. An AIM-54 could also be slaved and would then point the seekerhead at the TCS line of sight during launch but again, no range information. The AIM-7 on the other hand being SARH will at launch command the radar to turn on the CW illuminator thus giving indication of being painted by CW to the target.

 

In addition you could also use the radar slaved to the TCS which has its advantages. TCS with radar silent to an STT lock is quite quick, you only need to find the range as the elevation and azimuth is provided by the TCS.

 

In this way it's also possible to have the TCS help the radar stay on target if it's being jammed as when the radar is slaved to the TCS you can have the radar locked as well so that the target is tracked by radar for range and elevation and azimuth via the TCS.

 

It's still not entirely clear how much of the jamming functionality we can implement in a good way with the current ecm modelling in DCS but I guess we'll see! :-)

[turkeydriver]

Thanks Cobra for clearing that up regarding what capabilities you’ve modeled. So crews- spread your aircraft way out in elevation and altitude- if you do it far enough out and have the gas you can close on an enemy flight from from different headings..... use the one jet that is co- altitude and head on with the bandits as your radar jet and use link4 to send the data to your remaining jets that are radar standby with TCS. As lon as there is gas and weapons a Tomcat flight will control the air

[bonesvf103]

Can you control the zoom? ie, if you lock on a target and it's dot in the screen, can you zoom in any further to fill the screen with the target?

 

 

v6,

boNes

[HawkDCS]

Can you control the zoom? ie, if you lock on a target and it's dot in the screen, can you zoom in any further to fill the screen with the target?

 

 

v6,

boNes

 

Yes left side Fov switch.

 

Is there a setting to make it track contrast?

[bonesvf103]

LEft side FOV switch is the RIO pit, right>\? What about from the pilot pit?

 

 

v6,

boNes

[HawkDCS]

LEft side FOV switch is the RIO pit, right>\? What about from the pilot pit?

 

 

v6,

boNes

 

TCS is controlled by the RIO. Pilot has no control other then to see it on the VID.

[Top Jockey]

Not much fan of opening similar threads left and right, so I'll use this one.

 

After tweaking with the several TCS employment modes yesterday, I was going to swear that:

 

- for instants I saw the TCS tracking gates symbol - 4 small solid square dots (red circle 1) doing a clockwise circular search pattern, after selecting the " Auto-Search " mode (red circle 2).

 

However I was never again able to reproduce it, anyone confirms this ?

[eatthis]

did the tcs give a huge advantage given the doctrine of having the vis id a target before firing on it? does anything else have the capability to vis id a fighter sized target from 20+ miles away?

[QuiGon]

Not much fan of opening similar threads left and right, so I'll use this one.

 

After tweaking with the several TCS employment modes yesterday, I was going to swear that:

 

- for instants I saw the TCS tracking gates symbol - 4 small solid square dots (red circle 1) doing a clockwise circular search pattern, after selecting the " Auto-Search " mode (red circle 2).

 

However I was never again able to reproduce it, anyone confirms this ?

With the switch in AUTO SEARCH position you need to keep the trigger pressed (not sure if it was half or full action) in order to perform a circular search.

I'm a bit confused by this, because I too feel like this is not how it worked some months ago. Back then I think it was enough to flip the switch to AUTO SEARCH and the TCS started its search pattern and would automatically lock onto a target it detects, without you having to press the trigger. This would also make more sense IMHO, because what's the point of AUTO SEARCH if you have to keep the trigger pressed in order to search and lock a target? That's not what I would expect from an auto search function.

[Top Jockey]

With the switch in AUTO SEARCH position you need to keep the trigger pressed (not sure if it was half or full action) in order to perform a circular search.

I'm a bit confused by this, because I too feel like this is not how it worked some months ago. Back then I think it was enough to flip the switch to AUTO SEARCH and the TCS started its search pattern and would automatically lock onto a target it detects, without you having to press the trigger. This would also make more sense IMHO, because what's the point of AUTO SEARCH if you have to keep the trigger pressed in order to search and lock a target? That's not what I would expect from an auto search function.

 

Quigon,

 

Thank you for your detailed answer.

 

You're better informed than me; I didn't have the slightest idea one has to keep half or full action pressed at the HCU for the search pattern to start.

(I do know one has to use them to slew the tracking gates and lock the target.)

 

Maybe I mislooked it at the manual, but besides descriptions of what each TCS target acquisition mode is supposed to do, it doesn't tell much on HOW to do it.

 

Although I do know very little about the TCS modes / procedures in real life, I guess you're right - it would be more "logical" to do it autonomously, specially the search process.

[QuiGon]

I just checked the manual again and it actually says, that the TCS should automatically perform a search pattern and automatically lock onto the first contact it sees without having to press the trigger:

The last two switches controlling the TCS are the ACQ (acquisition) and FOV (field of view) switches. The ACQ switch controls how the TCS locks onto targets. AUTO SRCH means the TCS will move by itself in a limited search pattern trying to find a target. MAN (manual) means the TCS only locks onto targets if commanded to by the HCU in TCS mode and AUTO means the TCS automatically tries to lock onto targets entering its field of view.

That's not how it currently works :huh:

[Top Jockey]

Update.

 

On my DCSW version (one of the last open betas I'm sure):

 

- auto search pattern is achieved by maintaining both; half and full action pressed;

- it is the TCS Gimbal Angle Crosshair which does the pattern (not the tracking gate little squares);

- although there is indeed a small search pattern, the lock procedure itself feels prety much the same in either auto acquisition / manual / auto search.

[QuiGon]

Update.

 

On my DCSW version (one of the last open betas I'm sure):

 

- auto search pattern is achieved by maintaining both; half and full action pressed;

- it is the TCS Gimbal Angle Crosshair which does the pattern (not the tracking gate little squares);

- although there is indeed a small search pattern, the lock procedure itself feels prety much the same in either auto acquisition / manual / auto search.

That's exactly what I observed as well and it doesn't make any sense to me nor does it fit the description in the manual. It should start the search pattern as soon as the switch is being flipped to ACQ SRCH and automatically lock on the first contact it sees. Trigger action should not be required at all, neither half nor full action. I'm creating a bug thread now.

[IronMike]

Thank you Top Jockey and QuiGon, we will take a look.

[QuiGon]

Thank you Top Jockey and QuiGon, we will take a look.

Thanks! :thumbup:

[gyrovague]

That's exactly what I observed as well and it doesn't make any sense to me nor does it fit the description in the manual. It should start the search pattern as soon as the switch is being flipped to ACQ SRCH and automatically lock on the first contact it sees. Trigger action should not be required at all, neither half nor full action. I'm creating a bug thread now.

 

According to the NATOPS we have, in the absence of STT it requires half-action HCU to move the TCS LoS and initiate so-called semi-automatic acquisition (in AUTO or AUTO SRCH).

[QuiGon]

According to the NATOPS we have, in the absence of STT it requires half-action HCU to move the TCS LoS and initiate so-called semi-automatic acquisition (in AUTO or AUTO SRCH).

Then it is described wron in your own Tomcat manual ;)

 

But that really baffles me, because what's the point of the auto modes then if you have to manually use them? Especially the AUTO mode has pretty much no difference to MANUAL mode then, the only difference being, that with MANUAL mode the target has to be within the tracking gates in order to be able to lock it, while in AUTO mode it has to be visible somewhere on the TCS screen. When it's visible on the TCS screen it's really not that difficult to slew it into the tracking gates, so I can't really believe that they have implemented an extra mode that the RIO can select if he's too lazy to slew the TCS a tiny bit further. What's the point of the MANUAL mode then anyway? Why would I ever use MANUAL mode then? :huh:

 

it would all make much more sense if the auto modes would lock onto a target automatically without pilot intervention. I'm really curious now. Unfortunately the two Tomcat NATOPS documents I have (A&B from the early 2000s) don't include the TCS functionality, apart from some BIT tests. :dunno:

[gyrovague]

Then it is described wron in your own Tomcat manual ;)

 

But that really baffles me, because what's the point of the auto modes then if you have to manually use them? Especially the AUTO mode has pretty much no difference to MANUAL mode then, the only difference being, that with MANUAL mode the target has to be within the tracking gates in order to be able to lock it, while in AUTO mode it has to be visible somewhere on the TCS screen. When it's visible on the TCS screen it's really not that difficult to slew it into the tracking gates, so I can't really believe that they have implemented an extra mode that the RIO can select if he's too lazy to slew the TCS a tiny bit further. What's the point of the MANUAL mode then anyway? Why would I ever use MANUAL mode then? :huh:

 

it would all make much more sense if the auto modes would lock onto a target automatically without pilot intervention. I'm really curious now. Unfortunately the two Tomcat NATOPS documents I have (A&B from the early 2000s) don't include the TCS functionality, apart from some BIT tests. :dunno:

 

Some of the older NATOPS versions still have the TCS info, seems it was removed in later versions for whatever reason.

 

The manual mode has a much smaller area that it searches for contrast lock, the NATOPS recommends to use that for ground targets that may be in close proximity to other contrasty items. The AUTO mode searches a much larger area of the screen (70% of height and width, i.e. 50% of total raster area), and AUTO SRCH adds a bit of a search pattern to that to increase the effective area that it can find objects. That said, I don't think we support locking onto ground items with TCS in DCS F-14 yet, as well as a few more missing features like ability to be knocked out of alignment, requiring a boresighting process onto a co-operating radar locked target (wingman) and the trim knobs.

 

Another reason for the semi-automatic nature (i.e. requiring half-action) is so that the RIO can slew the TCS onto the desired area of interest using the HCU first, and not just always lock onto things dead ahead.

[gyrovague]

Then it is described wron in your own Tomcat manual ;)

I double checked our manual, it seems correct to me? Under the "TCS Operation" section it describes having to use half and full action with AUTO etc.

[QuiGon]

Another reason for the semi-automatic nature (i.e. requiring half-action) is so that the RIO can slew the TCS onto the desired area of interest using the HCU first, and not just always lock onto things dead ahead.

Well, that's what I would have thought is what the MANUAL mode is there for.

 

But apart from that I can see now what the thought process behind this implementation was (I haven't even thought about ground targets!), although I still think true automatic modes would have been better. But as this is not the case in the real Tomcat it should of course not be the case in the DCS Tomcat either. So we will have to stick with the semi-automatic nature then.

 

Anyways, thanks a lot for taking the time to explain this! It's clear now. :)

 

Just one more thing: Maybe think about adjusting the explanation in your Tomcat manual, as it sounds like the TCS will be fully automatic instead of semi-automatic:

The last two switches controlling the TCS are the ACQ (acquisition) and FOV (field of view) switches. The ACQ switch controls how the TCS locks onto targets. AUTO SRCH means the TCS will move by itself in a limited search pattern trying to find a target. MAN (manual) means the TCS only locks onto targets if commanded to by the HCU in TCS mode and AUTO means the TCS automatically tries to lock onto targets entering its field of view.

Edited October 23, 2019 by QuiGon

[QuiGon]

I double checked our manual, it seems correct to me? Under the "TCS Operation" section it describes having to use half and full action with AUTO etc.

 

The excerpt I quoted above is from the TCS Controls section here: http://www.heatblur.se/F-14Manual/general.html#sensor-control-panel

[gyrovague]

The excerpt I quoted above is from the TCS Controls section here: http://www.heatblur.se/F-14Manual/general.html#sensor-control-panel

 

It can perhaps do with a bit of clarification in that paragraph, but the Operation section further down clearly describes how to use it.