tflash Posted July 10, 2007 Posted July 10, 2007 Since there is so few info on Rafale available I bought an issue of the French Air Fan magazine. It features a story about the Rafale F2 operating in Afghanistan, and also a report from a journalist who flew backseat in the new F3 standard. Quite interesting: he witnessed the use of the OSF or "Optronique Secteur Frontale", which brings to the fighter what Shkval brought to Su-25T. But also in A2A roles. As it seems, the system is still prone to some failures and there are issues with the IR channel. But the TV channel works very good and although he didn't disclose any specific distances, he was talking about several tens of miles. Essentially, you can slave your OSF to the radar target, and get an image of the locked fighter (I guess like it was on the Tomcat IRST). Big advantage is that you can do some ID and that you can see where the bandit is heading. There was a print of an image and I must say it was very clear. The pilot simulated a "stealth" attack with radar put off and target still locked in OSF, with a Mica IR datalinked missile. The cockpit is absolutely awesome. I feel a modern-day fighter needs advanced optical systems, just like modern helo's have them. Another interesting story: the current F2 operational in Afghanistan has a gun, but ... it has no CCIP in A2G!!!! Some smart... thought this wasn't necessary anymore on a 21st century fighter! They are scrambling for a fix now. They currently carry 6 GBU-12's and have very long endurance with that load, both the navy Rafales as the AF Rafales, both in theatre right now. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
GGTharos Posted July 10, 2007 Posted July 10, 2007 Well, the Sniper XR was able to see civvie aircrafts in the IR channel taking off from 80nm away ... there's an article about it somewhere ... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Pilotasso Posted July 10, 2007 Posted July 10, 2007 Our pilots have been experimenting an IR intake POD (I believe the info on the model is not public yet) along with the helmet mounted sight, and they can too target both AA and AG targets just by looking at them. This works along with each applicable weapon type, be it Sidewinder, AMRAAM or guided bombs. .
tflash Posted July 10, 2007 Author Posted July 10, 2007 Sniper XR and the likes sure have given a second lease of life to a lot of aircraft; if I'm right UK Harriers are currently also deploying to Afghanistan with this pod. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
GGTharos Posted July 10, 2007 Posted July 10, 2007 Yep, it's an excellent piece of equipment! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
59th_LeFty Posted July 10, 2007 Posted July 10, 2007 Nice infos. I've also read somewhere, that they can't use the gun due to vibration problems. GIAT 30mm rules :D [sIGPIC]http://www.forum.lockon.ru/signaturepics/sigpic5279_1.gif[/sIGPIC] I could shot down a Kitchen :smartass:
golfsierra2 Posted July 10, 2007 Posted July 10, 2007 Quite interesting: he witnessed the use of the OSF or "Optronique Secteur Frontale", which brings to the fighter what Shkval brought to Su-25T. But also in A2A roles. As it seems, the system is still prone to some failures and there are issues with the IR channel. But the TV channel works very good and although he didn't disclose any specific distances, he was talking about several tens of miles. Your posting underlines what I assess as the major point in nowadays A2A combat scenarios: If you can SEE your opponent, something went wrong --- He should have hit the ground way before..... kind regards, Raven.... [sigpic]http://www.crc-mindreader.de/CRT/images/Birds2011.gif[/sigpic]
Force_Feedback Posted July 10, 2007 Posted July 10, 2007 Imagine the possibilities with the augmented vision system coupled to the IRST on the F-35, man that is like science fiction, yet it will be really operational, and really good. Creedence Clearwater Revival:worthy:
Pilotasso Posted July 11, 2007 Posted July 11, 2007 Your posting underlines what I assess as the major point in nowadays A2A combat scenarios: If you can SEE your opponent, something went wrong --- He should have hit the ground way before..... You can see enemy aircraft before you can fire a short range missiles, plus BVR missiles do happen to miss. If AA combat ever hapens again there will be many engagements being done WVR, even more when IFF and ROE are not ideal every time. Remenber the rifle sight next to an F-15's HUD picture? Thats why. LOMAC IFF is mostly undermodeled specialy for the russian planes that always get IFF instantly. .
nscode Posted July 11, 2007 Posted July 11, 2007 If you can SEE your opponent, something went wrong --- He should have hit the ground way before..... stop repeating this... it's dull Never forget that World War III was not Cold for most of us.
tflash Posted July 11, 2007 Author Posted July 11, 2007 Reading the article and some others on the topic, I think indeed that one of the main reasons for OSF on the Rafale is to have an extra means in carefully identifying a target, both A2A and A2G. It is also used to correctly identify buildings and ships engaged with stand-off weapons like AASM, SCALP end EXOCET. We should also take into account that contrary to online Lockon, coalition planners try to avoid putting aircraft of the same type as possible enemy fighters into the battlefield, to make visual IFF more easy and enabling to make full use of NCTR. E.g. in the first gulf war French Mirage F1's where not used because Iraq also flew the type. In these scenario's, preferred by Nato, having long-range visual ID is very important and can enable BVR engagement where it otherwise would be prohibited by ROE. PS Pilotasso, these tests you are talking about, is an IRST for F-16's? Does Portugal already have an advanced targeting pod? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Pilotasso Posted July 11, 2007 Posted July 11, 2007 Its not an IRST, the litening pod we were considering these past years has now become history. We now have other model in mind but Im not sure if it has been released to public yet. That pod can be used in a similar way as IRST but has not the same kind of boresight angle upwards as the usual IRST does due to visual constraints the fuselage (nose) imposes. In such case, it is my guess that the radar is used instead with the helmet. .
Perry Posted July 12, 2007 Posted July 12, 2007 Yes French pilots really like the OSF sensor, it is a good tool ! Tflash, if you want more news on the Rafale, you can find some on the net for free : http://www.le-webmag.com/article.php3?id_article=165&lang=en http://new.isoshop.com/dae/dae/gauche/sponsors/sponsor_rafale/index.htm http://www.dassault-aviation.com/fileadmin/user_upload/redacteur/presse/lbg07/defense/rafale/RBE2_AESA.pdf http://dada4.free.fr/Dual-use%20missile.pdf http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/06/18/214754/radar-and-optronics-will-define-future-rafale.html I love the cockpit too =) http://kovy.free.fr/temp/rafale-cockpit.jpg
tflash Posted July 12, 2007 Author Posted July 12, 2007 Wow, many thanks for the links!!! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
jpbordi Posted July 15, 2007 Posted July 15, 2007 hello, Is later a new version lockon include new generation plane, Mig 35, Mig 29 ovt, Eurofighter,F22,F35, rafale,gripen ? thanks regards
tflash Posted July 15, 2007 Author Posted July 15, 2007 Well, after BS there is talk about a multirole fighter game, possibly featuring F-16 and Mig-29SMT. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Force_Feedback Posted July 15, 2007 Posted July 15, 2007 Not likely that ED will get their hands on the current, about to enter service Mig-29SMT documentation (SMT2, maybe 3, dunno). They may get the info of the SMT we all seen videos of six or more years ago. But even that thing would be cool, as those have a hump, A-G radar, guided munitions and a conformal refueling probe. Creedence Clearwater Revival:worthy:
Perry Posted July 16, 2007 Posted July 16, 2007 Some new stuff. 14th July was Bastille Day in France, a documentary on the Rafale was aired on TV. http://videos.tf1.fr/video/news/france/0,,3492769,00-dans-cockpit-rafale-.html In the documentary they showed some footage of the OSF sensor (at 5:45) observing a helicopter in BVR. According to the journalist, the helicopter (I can recognize a PUMA) was at a distance of 30 km (How much nm ? 15 ?). If you look carefully, you can see that the zoom was at level 4 on a scale of 6. I have no clue if those images are from the IR or TV channel. Mig-29SMT. That would be very interesting ! (for the F-16 there is already the F4 series...)
tflash Posted July 16, 2007 Author Posted July 16, 2007 Thanks for the video! Eric Gйrard is indeed a top pilot! Indeed 30 km = 16.2 nm [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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