Dead Zone In Cyclic Input, it's back and a Work A Round.

[FragBum]

Umm it seems it's back or at least I have a problem with my cyclic input after a new OS and DCS install.

 

So I found the Gazelle feeling a bit off after the reinstall and various "boot' issues then I popped up the inputs display and there it is deflection of the cyclic moves progressively away from center but nothing happens until the box edge meets the cross-hair line on it's travel from center then boom pitch up or pitch down roll etc.

 

This is most pronounced when attempting to maintain level flight and you get what I term the porpoise effect pitch up pitch down don't bother rinsing just repeat. I'm guessing it's because nothing happens so you move cyclic further and then too much and you have PIO.

 

Okay you can see the boundaries by observing how much movement it takes for a reaction to occur whilst (attempting to) flying level, so I dialed in some negative curvature -3 on both X and Y which effectively cancels out the dead zone almost, so only a slight movement of cyclic breaches the dead zone and causes a reaction from cyclic input.

 

You might need to play with that value but negative and don't go to large it only has to allow slight cyclic movement to cross that dead zone, no more.

 

Now this isn't the first time I experienced this dead zone on cyclic input and I thought it got fixed with either a DCS or a PC update, now it's back and no it's not force feedback. Why that can't just be a tick box to enable or disable and be disabled by default is another question. ;)

 

I'd be interested to see if this helps anyone. :thumbup:

Edited February 9, 2019 by FragBum
<typos>

[Holton181]

Just bought the Gazelle, and I experience the same. Obviously I don't know by own experience how it has been.

My remedy is to leave the curve sliders at default byt activate the user curves (tick-box below the slides) and increase the lowest (leftmost) vertical slide from 0 to 1. Don't seem much but made a significant difference, deadzone basically gone. 2 is too much.

I have a PFT Lynx ("full length") with no mechanical nor firmware deadzone.

[FragBum]

Yes that also works well. :thumbup:

 

I have had to use a value of 4 for my setup and even putting the second slider back to 9 which softens the transition into control effect. Which is great the cyclic just needs to have a slight force to achieve a smooth control over the gazelle.

 

This difference in value might well reflect different USB interfaces but the aim is to move the cursor across the "dead zone" so it's just on the verge of asserting some input with just a slight pressure on the cyclic and any addition pressure starts asserting cyclic action on the model.

 

Interesting that the in cockpit representation of the cyclic actually moves whilst input of cyclic still hasn't crossed over the "dead zone" for control input.

 

My cyclic is a Frankensteined gimbal with a 25CM extension no springs and no dead zone but I have dampers to provide some feel and slight resistance to movement feed into a Leo Bodnar USB interface.

 

Actually after some tweaking I think I like the user curve solution as a work a round better.

[RazorbackNL]

If Polychop would just make a permanent fix for this issue instead of having us looking for a workaround. This issue has been here for too long.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Razorback[NL]

[DmitriKozlowsky]

With 'normal' HOTAS , dead zones are not allowed!

 

With 'normal' HOTAS , dead zones are not allowed! I have X56 Rhino. But I think that even with Warthog, no dead zones are allowed. In flight and during hover, with cyclic and collective the range of usable deflection is very very small. Which may be correct for small helicopters and long cyclic stick, and long collective handle. But with jet HOTAS, the sweet area of control during flight is very tight. You are not deflecting cyclic, as much as you are applying pressure to it. If it deflects, you have applied to much, and helicopter with go nuts. With collective , as it is connected to governor, you are adding or subtracting power, there is a delay of a second or so between change and helicopters response to the change. May it is realistic to the real thing, but it is very difficult to learn, and I doubt it would be that sensitive in RW. So set your axis curves to have pronounced S shape, and set dead zones to 0. If its higher, you will find that helicopter is jerking and smoothly responding. Personally, I don't like it this set up. Neither Rhino or Warthog have sufficient resolution for minute power , pitch, and roll axis. Even my Thrustmaster pedals, have certain steppiness in them.

[FragBum]

Just to clarify this is an issue that occurs from time to time I have no "dead zones" set nor do I want them.

 

I'm not exactly sure what causes this issue, there is continuous linear movement of the cursor in the 'controls display" but no input to the "Gazelle" until the cursor leaves the center and the dead spot seems about the size of the cursor.

 

I have built/hacked/cobbled together a cyclic and collective and using a Leo Bodnar USB controller so I don't have dead zones in those inputs. Also working on better physical controls to improve resolution as well.

 

Polychop have stated that there is no "dead spot" programmed into the Gaz however it seems it could be an issue that occurs during installation I don't know. What I do know is it's annoying as hell to fly with in this state hence the "work around".

 

Can only say the cyclic of an R44 is indeed sensitive and yes it's only *pressure on it for fine control and no dead spot. My first hover was more like an impromptu dance rather then a hover. :D

 

*Or just a quick blip of the cyclic in the direction for correction.

[thrustvector]

strange how some of us don't get it, there must be a common problem somewhere you would think

[FragBum]

Found it check in Options->Misc->FFB uncheck this box!

 

I'm not sure why this is even enabled by default when you reinstall DCS :doh:

[thrustvector]

well I never have that checked as tm hog isn't ff, so that's your problem solved?

[FragBum]

Just keep it in mind if you do a fresh install I don't have a FFb joystick either and I have been trouble shooting my computer (that's another story) and got to a point of putting a new SSD in and a couple of OS/DCS reinstalls latter but for some reason that tick box is enabled.

 

It's just been a long time since the "previous" OS/DCS build. Now I remember the grief it causes. :cry:

 

I'll test that next week when I do another DCS computer build.

[Holton181]

I knew about it, an I have it un-ticked already, but still a deadzone. But it has happen before that a setting that seems to have a value after an update (also actually have had that value effectively before the update) doesn't effectively have it. One needs to change the value, save, restart DCS, change back, save and restart again to make it work. Haven't tried that with the FFB setting. Will do when I get back to the cockpit in a few weeks.

 

Skickat från min D6603 via Tapatalk

[DUSTY]

I have this frustrating deadzone only in the forward part of the pitch axis. Does anyone else experience the same?

 

 

Small inputs of aft stick result in small and smooth nose up pitch changes but forward pressure on the cyclic goes nothing-nothing-boom, with a massive nose drop. This happens regardless of whether in a hover or forward flight at 200ks.

[FragBum]

Okay check that options->Misc->Force Feedback is not checked.

 

Next what input control are you using?

[DUSTY]

Okay check that options->Misc->Force Feedback is not checked.

 

Next what input control are you using?

 

 

How embarrassing! I thought I had unchecked FFB! I had not and it has removed that awful deadzone! Thanks Frag!

[FragBum]

Don't worry it's a gotcha DCS standard install and all,.. :thumbup:

 

It's an awesome bird to fly. :pilotfly:

[RazorbackNL]

;3794722']If Polychop would just make a permanent fix for this issue instead of having us looking for a workaround. This issue has been here for too long.

 

I did a totally clean fresh reinstall of DCS World OB today, including my SavedGame folder. OMG, the Gazelle flies like a dream, no more deadzones for me!

 

My sincere apologies to you, Polychop! The problem lay with me all the time!

 

Keep up the good work!

[FragBum]

:D :thumbup:

[Eldur]

Seems to be a problem with FFB enabled. Those with FFB sticks still have it. I just flew the thing for the first time today and noticed a huge deadzone that I did not set up anywhere which I don't have on other modules at all. Makes flying this heli almost impossible... I might try switching off FFB just to see if this changes anything though.

 

 

Edit: Tried with FFB off - no difference

Edited July 8, 2019 by Eldur

[Feuerfalke]

You might also check the autotrimmer-option in the gameplay settings, if you have an issue like that.

 

 

 

I apparently had that option enabled accidently and stumbled across this thread while searching for a solution.

 

 

 

It worked just like a roughly 5% deadzone for me and it was pretty deadly while flying helos.

[Rick50]

Might this be affected at all by some hardware? meaning no problems on stick brand AA, but brand GG just won't play fair ??

[FragBum]

Maybe maybe not seems to be software related.

[Sephyrius]

Worst thing is that enabling/disabling FFB requires a client restart to kick in (or even a restart upon the first opening of DCS for it to even kick in).

 

So having a module with not only broken FFB, but even non-functional to the point that it breaks the controls altogether, means that you can either turn on FFB and fly with it in every other module (even the ones without it at least default to a functioning center spring behaviour), or turn it off just for the Gazelle.

 

Let's just say that it's too much effort to switch off FFB, turn on SimFFB and restart to fly the Gazelle and then do it all again to fly anything else.

 

End result - shelving the Gazelle.