F-16 Simpit Plans

[sk000tch]

Indeed, very nice panel

[Deadman]

I think you have summed it up nicely why would any one go to the personal expense to share accurate planes for free? When the administrators of that site have openly posted they will use any information from other member to make for profit products for sale. Dick move or not trying to make money off of others work has killed the flow of information on cockpit building.

 

I would just link to his GitHub repo where the 3D files are and skip all his BS:

 

https://github.com/JonahTsai/F16

 

I'm Verisimilitude over at viperpits.org. The original thread was deleted, but basically he was ranting and raving about how he should get royalties for his 3D drawings if they're used commercially. Mr. Jonah Tsai conveniently left out my second and third follow-up post where I clarify further, but basically I pointed out that he cannot claim a copyright on a 3D drawing he made of an existing product and demand royalties from it, because all he's done is reverse engineer the original blueprint. He replied with a bunch of diatribe, but no sound reasoning at all. His whole argument rests on his erroneous belief that he should have a copyright because he created the drawings, just like how if someone made a clone of an existing product, they somehow have a right to sell it (or the rights to manufacture it).

 

On top of that, shortly before deleting the thread, the admin of viperpits.org pointed out that Jonah received a lot of help from the community, who donated parts to him and gave him really detailed pictures to work off of. He credited none of these people and acted like he created them by himself, which really ticked off the admin and prompted him to delete the thread.

 

That said, the admin did use his drawings to create a commercial ICP, which he sold a limited run of (20 units) on two websites and also eBay:

 

https://www.realsimworld.dk/f-16-simulator-shop/center-system-parts/icp-intergrated-control-panel

 

Whether this was a "dick move" or not is up to personal interpretation, but at least from a legal standpoint, since Jonah doesn't own the original copyright to the ICP design, anyone can sell one whether he likes it or not. And from a "this is how the world works" viewpoint, if he wanted to be paid royalties for commercial usage of his drawings, then he shouldn't have thrown it into a public repo accessible by anyone. This is like placing a sign on your front door that says "$100,000 inside, please do not rob me", then getting upset when you get robbed.

[Hempstead]

I would just link to his GitHub repo where the 3D files are and skip all his BS:

 

https://github.com/JonahTsai/F16

 

I'm Verisimilitude over at viperpits.org. The original thread was deleted, but basically he was ranting and raving about how he should get royalties for his 3D drawings if they're used commercially. Mr. Jonah Tsai conveniently left out my second and third follow-up post where I clarify further, but basically I pointed out that he cannot claim a copyright on a 3D drawing he made of an existing product and demand royalties from it, because all he's done is reverse engineer the original blueprint. He replied with a bunch of diatribe, but no sound reasoning at all. His whole argument rests on his erroneous belief that he should have a copyright because he created the drawings, just like how if someone made a clone of an existing product, they somehow have a right to sell it (or the rights to manufacture it).

 

 

On top of that, shortly before deleting the thread, the admin of viperpits.org pointed out that Jonah received a lot of help from the community, who donated parts to him and gave him really detailed pictures to work off of. He credited none of these people and acted like he created them by himself, which really ticked off the admin and prompted him to delete the thread.

 

That said, the admin did use his drawings to create a commercial ICP, which he sold a limited run of (20 units) on two websites and also eBay:

 

https://www.realsimworld.dk/f-16-simulator-shop/center-system-parts/icp-intergrated-control-panel

 

Whether this was a "dick move" or not is up to personal interpretation, but at least from a legal standpoint, since Jonah doesn't own the original copyright to the ICP design, anyone can sell one whether he likes it or not. And from a "this is how the world works" viewpoint, if he wanted to be paid royalties for commercial usage of his drawings, then he shouldn't have thrown it into a public repo accessible by anyone. This is like placing a sign on your front door that says "$100,000 inside, please do not rob me", then getting upset when you get robbed.

 

Instead of claiming wild theories from a post that got deleted by admin on ViperPits, please point out anywhere else have I ever demanded royalty. Even the PTFE rings I sell here, I barely stayed black. I view it as a community service, b/c if I factor in my labor... it would be at least triple the price. Oh, and I posted the full spec. of the PTFE ring and told everybody who wants to make them for profit, please let me know, I would refer business to him/her so I can get out of the community service.... no takers so far... one British cloner... but you don't see me complaining about not getting credited.

 

Even on ViperPits, I made it abundantly clear that I would grant a personal commercial license of the 3D model files to my fellow ViperPit members, at the fee of whatever you feel appropriate, in the form of donation to ViperPits.. The purpose of that was to take the money question out of the equation, yet at the same time prevent big commercial companies from swooping in and take everything without crediting the works by the flight sim community. Where and when did I EVER demand any royalty?

 

Plus, all those 3D models except those by Kumrik, which are clearly marked out as exception, were created from scratch by my own two hands. Even as today, you can still see that exception on GitHub, in the form of Copyright.txt.

 

All 3D models published here are released under Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial Internationl, v4.0 license.

All rights reserved.
Jonah Tsai, 2014-2015.

Exception:
Copyrights of files under ButtonsKnobsLights/Knobs/Kumrik Knobs/* belong to Kumrik of ViperPits. They are also published under Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial International v4.0 license.

https://github.com/JonahTsai/F16/blob/master/COPYRIGHT.txt

 

the admin of viperpits.org pointed out that Jonah received a lot of help from the community, who donated parts to him and gave him really detailed pictures to work off of.

 

Please point out which part got on my hand that was donated! I never received any parts from anybody without paying big money for it, not even as on loan for measurement. I know I way overpaid for a lot of them, particularly those ones I bought from one of those ViperPits admins. In fact, a VP admin lives just 2 blocks away from me and he owns a FAM pit. I asked to go measure some dimensions from him and received a cold shoulder of silence. Great help, eh?

 

 

Except those from Kumrik, I did paid literally thousands of USD in purchasing all those genuine F16 parts out of my own pocket, nobody else's money. Yes, indeed a couple of parts I did purchase from the ViperPits community at exuberant markup (You think I didn't know I over paid? Think again. ;) But I wouldn't qualify that as community helps.

 

I did create all those 3D models by my own two hands, except those by Kumrik. Every single line of in those 3D drawings were put down by me. I have the GitHub repo history as a proof of the progress, published all in the open. You can go check them out yourself -- every bit of change is recorded in GitHub commit history.

 

And I have never ever laid eyes on any F16 blue prints. Every time I saw LMCO name on any drawings some dumb ass posting on ViperPits, I shake my head and close it immediately. I don't want to be contaminated, in case someday some dumb ass would come claim I copied from any "blue print."

 

The only helps I received from the ViperPits community are the followings:

1. A couple of corrections and feedbacks. These are all documented in the 3D model thread on ViperPits. Go read them and see how "many" helps I got from the community. Not that many really.

2. The TUB model... all the dimensions were from Feather's annotated photos and spreadsheet. This is clearly attributed to Feather's credit. All I did here was translating his dimensions to CAD models. That was the extent of my works on the TUB model. And it was clearly attributed.

3. A couple of dimensions for the HUD models that I wasn't sure about the resin cast I paid over USD$1000 for, so I crossed checked with a 2D drawing I found on ViperPits... I can confidently say 99.9% of the dimensions of the HUD model came from my caliper and 100% of the 3D modeling was my works.

4. A lot of encouragements from ViperPits.

 

 

But.... all those 3D models were constructed by my own two hands, every single line. I don't know about you... I qualify that as files 100% created by me.

 

Let me put this abundantly clear. It's people like you that I stopped publishing anything for free. Instead, I am giving out things for free to only people I trust.

 

I

since Jonah doesn't own the original copyright to the ICP design, anyone can sell one whether he likes it or not.

 

That's where you are completely wrong. Let me repeat again -- I don't own any of the design copyrights of those F16 parts. Lockheed Martin (LMCO) does. I only claim the copyright of the unique combination of the step-by-step construction in the the 3D model files, which if you just open those files in any compatible CAD you would re-execute those steps I created in order to reconstruct the 3D models, and claimed copyrights. I never claim any copyrights of the designs. You make a part for sale out of those 3D models files, first of all you violated LMCO's design copyrights because you just cloned LMCO's product for sales not because you used my files, unless you took out a license either from LMCO or US Air Force, like ThrustMaster did. But that's between you and LMCO, none of my business. All I am concerned is that I published those 3D model files under Creative Commons Non-Commercial International license, so if you used my files to make profit, you clearly violated the "non-commerical" clause. That is very uncool, whether you agree with my claim of copyright or not. That is not how a community should be. If a community steal from each other in the open, perceived or not, who would share?

 

 

The bottom line is very simple. You don't satisfy my no-stealing demand, I won't publish more. It's that simple.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Hempstead

[Deadman]

Hempstead this exactly why I no longer share information even after your scolding. It just does not work the way we would like cheers

[Icebeat]

Thanks, Hempstead for your awesome work and allowing us to use it.....

[Wicked.-]

Same here on no response from Viperpits and I've had a login there since 2005 lol. Same avatar and everything!

[Stang]

Hi Guys

 

I'm available and the F-16C, F/A-18C and P-51D CAD Plans are available too. Just shoot me a PM if you have any questions.

 

Stang out

[Wicked.-]

First off, thank you Hempstead for you work. A buddy and I were able to 3D print the grip and use it for prototyping from your drawing.

 

Next, does anyone have a picture of the insides of a real Viper grip?

Edited November 5, 2019 by Wicked.-

[Hempstead]

First off, thank you Hempstead for you work. A buddy and I were able to 3D print the grip and use it for prototyping from your drawing.

 

Next, does anyone have a picture of the insides of a real Viper grip?

 

The attached are pictures of the inside of the F16 TQS. The first one, the black one, is the real one with all the parts. Although I didn't really model the inside except the 3 "islands" for accepting the screws, it's in general quite "close" to the original with some small modification for modeling convenience. In general, I used 0.1" thickness and tried to keep that thickness everywhere.

 

The 2nd picture is the result of my bronze casting of it (chopped it up in multiple pieces for easy casting and extraction, 3D prints, silicon RTV mold, and then traditional lost wax casting process, and TIG weld them back together... and a lot of sanding.). The inside of it is very close to the real one. Why bronze? It's the local Pratt Fine Arts Institute, where I took class and cast them. Artists do bronze... they don't do aluminum, so I observed Pratt is a Fine Art institute. And I actually quite like the extra heft of bronze, and this thing would never get off the ground, so weight is not an issue.

 

And don't ask... Although I cast total of 4 sets, in anticipation that some would fail, I lucked out and ended up with 4 sets. I will not sell this stuff. It would a violation of LMCO's copyrights.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Hempstead

[Boltz]

Wow Hempstead, excellent quality casting you have done there! Very impressive work

[Hempstead]

Wow Hempstead, excellent quality casting you have done there! Very impressive work

 

Actually, this is the worst casting of the 4 sets. There were voids in this set, and I almost threw it away due to the casting defects. But I figured I could use it as a "tech testing" piece using different tools/techniques on it before using them on the other 3 sets. For instance, would 100A DCEN on the TIG welding work? Yes, kind of, and my TIG welding skill sucks big time, but my sanding skill is plenty good enough to cover that shortcoming.

 

As you can see in the picture below, it's not perfect. There is a little gap between the upper and lower main body, and there are still some small holes in the screw hole. But it looks great and feels great in my hand too. Well... I am an amateure, I can happily live with such results.

 

I am currently working on the guts of this thing... among other things, the optical HAT switch, mini-Hall sensor, and the controller (not necessarily based on Hempstick). But you see where I am going in the LONG run. The 3D model is just one of the first steps... the least "valuable" part of this "long run."

 

I would have shared all of them OpenSource (I am going so far in compiling Linux kernel myself, writing Linux kernel drivers/modules, and learning Yocto to get my own Linux distribution, etc. etc.), but unfortunately, somebody has to violate the OpenSource licensing terms. So, now I can't figure out how to share without getting my shit stolen.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Hempstead

[Spitty]

Wonderful effort.TIG work is hard in the best conditions...

[Spitty]

Not sure if everyones found these links.

http://www.checksix-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=286&t=180880&sid=72c054cb7464359f661b28fda9164c8d

 

 

http://www.hempstick.org/The_Official_Hempstick_Site/Flight_Sim_3D_Models.html

[VampireOne]

On 2/17/2019 at 9:50 PM, Deadman said:

Check out http://www.flyingfalcon.org/phpBB3/

Page could not be found

 

[Deadman]

Site has been down for months. I have not heard why or what happened.

[BaronVonVaderham]

On 2/17/2019 at 9:50 PM, Deadman said:

Check out http://www.flyingfalcon.org/phpBB3/

I’ve tried to register, but what nicknames do they accept? the only ones I know of are viper and fighting falcon. But those options are not accepted. 

[No1sonuk]

3 hours ago, BaronVonVaderham said:

I’ve tried to register, but what nicknames do they accept? the only ones I know of are viper and fighting falcon. But those options are not accepted. 

Just tried it.  Viper, Falcon and Lawn Dart...