MiG-35's new systems - OLS

[Boneski]

The most important point here is that Flyby likes what he likes for the reason he likes it...

 

DS your info is just as subjective as Flyby’s. You crusade against his opinion as if you have hours in the 22. News flash bro! Facts are opinions when presented by people that don’t have the ability to confirm them as such.

 

Until your logbook is filled with entries showing your hours in the Type (F-22)… Your facts may as well be your opinions.

 

So let it go bro. Let Fly Like what he likes with out bashing or you may say.. educating him on why he should not like what he likes. The US Air Force thanks you for your support of this great Weapon System... But please note... That the true test will come in the air. Not on a message board.

 

Speaking from experience. Air Combat is a combination of many things. A good Jet is a combination of many capabilities. A good Pilot is a combination of many skills.

[D-Scythe]

DS your info is just as subjective as Flyby’s. You crusade against his opinion as if you have hours in the 22. News flash bro! Facts are opinions when presented by people that don’t have the ability to confirm them as such.

 

The only fact I "presented" was that there is no operational Russian fighter that is more agile than the F-22. The super-agile Flanker and MiG derivatives are not included because they are not operational.

 

If you can't handle that, or see a fact for what it is, then that's your problem, not mine.

 

Until your logbook is filled with entries showing your hours in the Type (F-22)… Your facts may as well be your opinions.

 

Right, so it's impossible for the public to grasp even basic facts about the military. The "fact" that the F-15 is equipped with a radar then most also come under intense scrutiny - hell, there's no way we can be sure right?

 

If facts and truth are really as subjective as you think they are, why design flight sims at all?

 

So let it go bro. Let Fly Like what he likes with out bashing or you may say.. educating him on why he should not like what he likes. The US Air Force thanks you for your support of this great Weapon System... But please note... That the true test will come in the air. Not on a message board.

 

Gee, thanks for your deep and profound words. I now realize the error of my ways and under your guidance will seek a new, more meaningful path toward enlightenment.

 

Speaking from experience. Air Combat is a combination of many things. A good Jet is a combination of many capabilities. A good Pilot is a combination of many skills.

 

Speaking from experience? Please, do share.

[EvilBivol-1]

The super-agile Flanker and MiG derivatives are not included because they are not operational.

MKI? :)

[Flyby]

OK guys, I'm sorry if I've offended anyone. This aspect of the discussion is not worth the risk of bad blood among fans of combat flight sims, or real military combat aircraft. Remember, "yada-yada-yada, all others bring data". Otherwise strong opinions bring strong opposition, which is where we are now. Hell, I ain't trying to win nothing here. You'd think I've learned to more carefully pick the battles I fight. No need to fight them all.

Flyby out

[D-Scythe]

EB, has the fourth "block" of the Su-30MKI's been delivered with the TVC engines? Last I heard, and this was a long time ago, the 2nd batch/block was delayed, then I stopped following the program.

 

But if India does have full-spec Su-30MKIs running around, then yes, it is certainly a valid point. Barring the "slow speed" part, do you know if the Su-30MKI can retain its spectacular performance at combat fuel loads and weapon payloads?

 

OK guys, I'm sorry if I've offended anyone. This aspect of the discussion is not worth the risk of bad blood among fans of combat flight sims, or real military combat aircraft. Remember, "yada-yada-yada, all others bring data". Otherwise strong opinions bring strong opposition, which is where we are now. Hell, I ain't trying to win nothing here. You'd think I've learned to more carefully pick the battles I fight. No need to fight them all.

 

I know I sound like a chick, but it was more how you presented your argument (how you said it), rather than what you said. You said this:

 

Flyby: "I don't know cumquats from chicken squat about most of what you guys are talking about, But!! all things considered, I think any of you would rather take your chances in a new highly agile fighter like the MiG35 versus a last generation fighter, especially in a knife fight. America's best front line fighters are 30 years old. The newer models (F-22, F-35) are not as agile as the MiG-35. Period. I'm from the good old USA, but I watch the demonstration videos, and I can see with my own eyes which fighters have the better agility. As for offensive/defensive systems, none of these planes have been tested in actual combat. All else is specualtion.

ta-daaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! there it is."

 

Doesn't sound like you were presenting opinions to me, more like you already assumed what you said was common knowledge. And you're surprised that I'm disagreeing?

[EvilBivol-1]

EB, has the fourth "block" of the Su-30MKI's been delivered with the TVC engines? Last I heard, and this was a long time ago, the 2nd batch/block was delayed, then I stopped following the program.

I believe India has been flying TVC-equipped -MKIs since 2005. I know they had 'em flying for Aero India 2005, for example. Also, HAL is now producing them, IIRC.

 

But if India does have full-spec Su-30MKIs running around, then yes, it is certainly a valid point. Barring the "slow speed" part, do you know if the Su-30MKI can retain its spectacular performance at combat fuel loads and weapon payloads?

I don't know, but then again the same question is applicable to any fighter. I know that combat application of "supermaneuverability" was demonstrated to the 'clients' by Sukhoi (i.e. flipping backwards and firing an R-73), but again - no real facts.

[Pilotasso]

Some misinformed people here. The mig-35 IS in service, just not with russia. Thus it is an operational fighter TODAY.

[Flyby]

DS,

I'm not surprised at anything much anymore. Oh, I didn't think you sounded like a chick at all (wel, maybe a little). ;) Let's let bygones be bygones, and get back to the good stuff.

Flyby out

[D-Scythe]

Some misinformed people here. The mig-35 IS in service, just not with russia. Thus it is an operational fighter TODAY.

 

With who?

[Vekkinho]

Yes really, which country flies MiG-35?!

 

And please, do not mistake MiG-29M with 35!

[Pilotasso]

With who?

 

Algeria took delivery of 2 dual seaters a few months ago. They are certain to have more by now.

 

 

Correction: Algeria has SMT2's not 35's my bad. However the Mig-35 is competing with the Gripen and F-16 and f-18E for an indian Export. It cant be anything else but ready.

[tflash]

With that we're back where it started: the Mig-35's systems. Combining its Aesa radar with its OLS complex, the Mig-35 could be used to be the "eyes in the sky" over the battlefield. A modern fighter has still some advantages in between the full-blown Nimrod MR.4A on the on ehand and Predator/Reaper hordes on the other. But to be complete, you need intelligent data-links and sufficient range. Being able to relay the OLS video-feed to ground controllers seem to me a top priority. Any news the Russians are working on that?

[D-Scythe]

Correction: Algeria has SMT2's not 35's my bad. However the Mig-35 is competing with the Gripen and F-16 and f-18E for an indian Export. It cant be anything else but ready.

 

The Block 60 F-16C wasn't ready when it "competed" for the UAE contract (that it eventually won). Neither was the F-15K when it competed in the South Korean FX program (or the Su-35 that also competed for the Korean order). When the Su-30MKI won its Indian contract, it too wasn't "ready" per say - indeed, the first batch of Flankers delivered to India were basic two-seat Su-30s. Or the F-15SG for Singapore.

 

Shall I go on?

[Pilotasso]

The first batch of MKI's were a result of insufficient output on the part of the russians. The factory couldnt cope with the delivery dates. (this time Im am not mistakened :D )

[Mugatu]

speaking of agility I don't think anything comes close to the X-31

 

[D-Scythe]

speaking of agility I don't think anything comes close to the X-31

 

 

Haha, cause a mongoose "beats" the cobra. Cute.

[Alfa]

The first batch of MKI's were a result of insufficient output on the part of the russians. The factory couldnt cope with the delivery dates. (this time Im am not mistakened :D )

 

India operated(still?) three different variants of the Su-30 - namely the basic Su-30K(export version of the old dedicated interceptor variant), the Su-30MK(multirole version but without canards and TVC) and finally the Su-30MKI with all the pipes and whistles.

 

The batch of Su-30MKs might well have been an intermediate solution, while a production line incorporating all the specifics of the dedicated Indian version(-MKI) was set up.