OT: MiG-29K/KUB for India

[Vekkinho]

I saw this bird (#941) at MAKS last year and I must say I was impressed.

 

I don't care how it looks or how it's painted 'cause I'm not gonna marry it, BTW I see nothing wrong with Blue/Blue camo especially since it's a naval aircraft.

 

What really made an impression was a low speed pass during display flight. With hook and gear extended, those large flaps lowered and a AoA of cca 20° KUB overflew the crowd at 200km/h (108kts). Can U beat that in any other jet of similar purpose, size and weight?!!

[Pilotasso]

The first serial production 'KUB' made it's maiden flight on March 18, 2008. Photos from Pilot's blog:

 

 

 

 

Check out the dogtooth pattern on the radome. Stealthy?

 

I wouldnt say stealthy, but probably a measure to hide those right angles of the radar dish struts.

[Kusch]

First prototype in Russian camo:

 

 

Previous paint (MAKS 2007):

 

http://pilot.strizhi.info/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/img_6557_sm.jpg

[Vekkinho]

Here's some of mine pics taken at MAKS last August, I used Olympus E-500 but I had to shoot into the sunlight most of the time because spectators area was north of the runway.

 

So here it goes:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Low speed pass:

 

 

But my favourite of the day was:

 

 

 

 

Uploaded pics are compressed into .jpg to reduce size and resolution.

All originals are 8MP (.raw)

 

Enjoy!

[Kusch]

Simulator MiG-29K

 

http://pilot.strizhi.info/2008/12/16/5957#more-5957

 

[Groove]

New Price?

 

 

60% Price Increase On MiG-29Ks for India

 

By VIVEK RAGHUVANSHI NEW DELHI — Moscow, which once offered to sell India additional MiG-29Ks for about $46 million apiece, now wants about 60 percent more for each multirole combat jet.

 

In 2004, the Indian Navy ordered 16 MiG-29Ks for about $740 million, a deal that included an option to buy 12 more at the same price.

 

Now the Navy wants 29 more MiGs for its Air Defense Ship, a carrier under construction at the state-owned Cochin Shipyard, because the Light Combat Aircraft won’t enter service for seven to eight years, and an upgrade of the service’s Sea Harriers is not taking off as planned.

 

But in mid-December talks here, a six-member team from Russia’s Rosoboronexport armsexport agency insisted on a price tag of $75 million apiece, Indian Defence Ministry sources said.

 

The Russians say they have improved the MiG-29K by adding self-defense chaff pods and other modifications.

 

The Navy has yet to receive the 12 single-seat MiG-29Ks and four two-seat MiG-29KUBs, which were to arrive between 2007 and 2009, a Navy official said.

 

The initial batch of MiG-29Ks was to fly from the Admiral Gorshkov, a Russian aircraft carrier whose delivery to India has been delayed from 2007-08 to 2012, thanks to Moscow’s insistence that the price for purchase and refit be hiked from the original $1 billion to nearly $2.2 billion. The Indian side has yet to formally agree to the new price.

 

Indian MiG-29K pilots have been training in Russia. The 2004 contract includes hardware for aircraft maintenance and pilot training, including flight simulators and interactive ground- and sea-based training systems.

 

The Navy official said the first MiG-29K would be delivered in early 2009 and will be based in Goa until the Admiral Gorshkov arrives.

 

The K model is more advanced than the Indian Air Force’s MiG29s, having a multimode radar, more internal fuel capacity, a glass cockpit, more advanced avionics, an arrestor hook for carrier landings, stronger landing gear, folding wings and better engine protection against foreign objects, the Navy Official said.

[Pilotasso]

Russia realy pushing prices up...I dont think the mig holds any advantage over Superhornet or Naval Rafale (if at all but, or even disavantage) to justify the price. Dont think US will sell the F-35C, otherwise it would be worth taking a look onto that one. Man...75 million...What missiles will those migs carry? Old R-27's?

 

Personaly I would take the Naval Rafale and couple it with the Meteor. Tough one to beat. ;)

Edited January 7, 2009 by Pilotasso

[Boberro]

OMG so expensive!

 

I agree with Pilotasso in 100%

[Рустам]

And what about Alfa's MiG-29K mod for LockOn?)

[Alfa]

New Price?

 

I guess there is a possibility that the author could just be misinformed, but from past experience on the matter, I tend to think its more likely to be yet another case of spreading false rumors with the intend to discredit the Gorshkov/MiG-29K acquisition.

 

Anyway, according to this...

 

http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=614063

 

.....

 

 

India can join in the design and development of twin seater fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA), being built by the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), UAC President Alexey I Fedorov said.

 

He said Russia is building the single seater FGFA, which is expected to make its maiden flight next year.

 

Fedorov rubbished reports that Russia has hiked the price of the MiG-29k aircraft it has offered to India.

 

"MiG-29k price has not undergone any change," he said.

 

Asked whether India has sought additional 30 MiG 29k jets, Fedorov pointed out that the contract with New Delhi has an option of ordering additional fighters by 2015.

 

....the claim is false.

 

The unit price of the MiG-29K/KUB is some $46 million according to the contract, which is a little less than the latest knocked-down unit price of $49 million(initially some $55 million) for the F/A-18E/F.

 

It would seem very odd if MIG would try to squeeze the Indians on the price of the MIG-29K/KUB - especially to that extend - at a time where they are promoting its "cousin"(the MiG-35) in the important IAF tender for 126 new multirole fighters in competition with several other fighter designs.....including the F/A-18E/F.

[mikoyan]

I think that mig is putting more effort than sukhoi, the new migs have a lots of upgrades. The new migs have bigger wings, and tail section, new flight control system and avionics. I beth that the new mig-35 and the K version have much better flying characteristics that the old mig-29. If you look the su-35 it is really hard to spot aerodynamic upgrades; in fact the only differences I see are the tails that are smaller and work like air-brakes. For the su-35 I was expecting bigger wings to reduce wing-loading and bigger elevators like it was done with the mig-35.

[Alfa]

Russia realy pushing prices up...I dont think the mig holds any advantage over Superhornet or Naval Rafale (if at all but, or even disavantage) to justify the price. Dont think US will sell the F-35C, otherwise it would be worth taking a look onto that one. Man...75 million...What missiles will those migs carry? Old R-27's?

 

Personaly I would take the Naval Rafale and couple it with the Meteor. Tough one to beat. ;)

 

No offense Pilotasso, but sometimes your replies really make no sense at all.

 

Firstly, yes the MiG-29K/KUB holds a very important advantage over the SuperHornet, Rafale and(especially) the F-35C - namely that it can operate from carriers without catapults.....and even if the MiG-29K/KUB was to prove more expensive than those contenders, you would have to facture in the(considerable) extra cost of building catapult equipped ships to operate them.

 

Secondly, even if the price of the MiG-29K was pushed to the claimed $75 million, it would still be a little less than the Rafale(Euro 56.6 million ~ $77 million) and a lot less than the F-35C for which the estimated unit price is over $80 million.

 

Thirdly, one of the main objectives of the Gorshkov/MiG-29K deal is the time factor. India's current "carrier force" is long overdue for replacement(both ships and aircraft) and that the Gorshkov/MiG-29K deal provides the quickest option for replacement of the currently operated carrier and thus allows India to maintain this capability until it can build new ships domestically. In this connection none of the alternatives you mention are viable because they quite simply would have no ships to operate from.

 

What missiles will those migs carry? Old R-27's?

 

No they will carry RVV-AE, X-35 and X-31A/P. R-27R1/ER1 and R-27T1/ET1 are options as well though.

Edited January 8, 2009 by Alfa

[Alfa]

And what about Alfa's MiG-29K mod for LockOn?)

 

Do you mean whether I am going to make a new version of the mod Рустам? :) .

 

If so then yes that was the plan, but I need a new 3D model for the purpose.

[Vekkinho]

Tomcatz is making new 9.12 (or was it 9.13?!!) and guys from SimMod are always eager to help us, so perhaps if we join our forces K / KUB is behind the corner!

 

The only thing I'll miss about K is no MFD possibilities in LOFC!

[Boberro]

I think that mig is putting more effort than sukhoi, the new migs have a lots of upgrades. The new migs have bigger wings, and tail section, new flight control system and avionics. I beth that the new mig-35 and the K version have much better flying characteristics that the old mig-29. If you look the su-35 it is really hard to spot aerodynamic upgrades; in fact the only differences I see are the tails that are smaller and work like air-brakes. For the su-35 I was expecting bigger wings to reduce wing-loading and bigger elevators like it was done with the mig-35.

 

Maybe simple MiGs needed more corrections than Sukhoi? ;)

[nscode]

really, i don't see why (and actually how) the Su should (and could) get any bigger :D

[Kusch]

MiG-29K/KUB production for the Indian Navy

 

http://pilot.strizhi.info/2009/02/08/6201#more-6201

 

[Kusch]

http://pilot.strizhi.info/2009/02/13/6252#more-6252

 

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

According to Airforces Monthly, April edition, Russia may buy few MiG-29K to help MiG factory through this tough times. Also, it appears that Russia delivered four MiG-29K's to India. Any pictures yet? :)

[JaNk0]

Hold on, what sim is that ! :P

[Boberro]

I would like to play it ;)

[59th_LeFty]

Hey, isn't that the 3D model of the Kuz' from LockOn? :D

[192nd_Erdem]

Looks better than LO's one to me ;)

[nscode]

They've turned off the mirrors to get better fps :D

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Hold on, what sim is that ! :P

DCS 4.0 :)