Is it me or is the F14 getting owned in multiply Player?

[Hummingbird]

Nice video! I think you and I are operating on the same wavelength lol. I just put out one today too but vs an AI Hornet rather than a real pilot:

 

 

I'm not sure I'd want to force a Hornet to a low speed fight because of how much better nose authority it has. Staying in the vertical until you've bled what energy the Hornet has is absolutely critical, then using the vertical to get on their six and finish them in that lower energy state.

 

Your rolling corkscrew scissors was pretty impressive though! :)

 

That's what I intially thought as well, however it turns out going vertical against a player flown Hornet (which is a completely different beast to go up against than the AI one) is a pretty bad idea. It's much better to crank the cat around real tight on the first turn and then attempt to force a one circle fight, preferably one near the ground so the Hornet can't drop its nose too much to regain energy to sustain its high alpha nose pointing. Once you're down on the deck you want to maintain you turn at around 300-325 knots and 15-17 units of AoA. If you do this you will outturn the Hornet. Once on his six you want to beware of high alpha corkscrews to attempt to make you overshoot. If he pulls one of those off and you don't have enough seperation for a shot, simply do a high yo yo and come back down on him again once his nose drops.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Hummingbird

[Victory205]

What is the speed read out showing on the track? ASI, TAS, knots or KPH?

[Hummingbird]

What is the speed read out showing on the track? ASI, TAS, knots or KPH?

 

Should be

Top = vertical speed (VS)

Mid = Mach (Mach)

Bottom = G's (G)

 

Probably should've checked that earlier, as honestly I don't know why I have vertical speed (VS) in there.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Hummingbird

[Victory205]

The round dials...

[Hummingbird]

The round dials...

 

That's IAS in KPH.

[Hummingbird]

Re-released the track with more useful readings:

1. TAS

2. Altitude

3. G's

 

XKaRUQ_siWE

[Bones1775]

I apologize ahead of time, but this is such an absurd statement I can not stop myself. It is a logical fallacy to assume that because one item replaces another that it is in anyway better. The Hornet is better, but primarily on the accounting sheet, not in any combat scenario. Since I assume that the multi-player arenas are like any other online games, the equipment is only loosely being used in any way similar to their intended use. Again, I apologize for this post.

 

Salute,

 

additionally the hornet in dcs did not replace the tomcat. it replaced the A-7 and A-6

[Sandman1330]

Yeah, what hummingbird didn’t show you is the 10 other tracks where I smoked him, sometimes only a half turn post merge :megalol:

 

I say the above in jest, we had a real good time and will no doubt be back at it again soon. By the end we were very evenly matched.

 

The only thing the Tomcat would do that gave me any real angst was force a 2 circle rate fight at less than 300kts. In that specific case, the Tomcat would outrate the Hornet. At 300-350kts, the hornet easily out rated the Tomcat, and had enough energy to bring the nose into lead pursuit for the guns shot.

 

Other than not allow him to force a slower rate fight, I’ve yet to find a counter to that tactic - but I will! :devil:

 

It seemed in the vast majority of cases outside this one tactic, the Hornet had superior turn, and did so with much lower pilot workload.

[RustBelt]

If RL pilots came into bash one another than I really question the professionalism or their authenticity of actually being one. In my years of simulation (90s) and dealing with real life pilots they no way I act like that on any type of public forum on the internet!

 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

Sooooo you've never been on Airline Pilot Central Forums then :megalol:

[Donut]

Nice video! I think you and I are operating on the same wavelength lol. I just put out one today too but vs an AI Hornet rather than a real pilot:

 

 

I'm not sure I'd want to force a Hornet to a low speed fight because of how much better nose authority it has. Staying in the vertical until you've bled what energy the Hornet has is absolutely critical, then using the vertical to get on their six and finish them in that lower energy state.

 

Your rolling corkscrew scissors was pretty impressive though! :)

 

Great flying and thank you for putting that video together!

 

I watched the Tacview and maybe I am missing something, but it seems to me that if flown by a human pilot, the Hornet could have achieved a guns kill on you several times by trading it's excess energy with a high AoA pull and pointed it's nose wherever it wanted to.

 

Does the Hornet FM flown by a human pilot retain energy like the AI did in this video?

[Sandman1330]

Great flying and thank you for putting that video together!

 

I watched the Tacview and maybe I am missing something, but it seems to me that if flown by a human pilot, the Hornet could have achieved a guns kill on you several times by trading it's excess energy with a high AoA pull and pointed it's nose wherever it wanted to.

 

Does the Hornet FM flown by a human pilot retain energy like the AI did in this video?

 

The Hornet controlled by a human (I always have a hard time saying “flown” when talking about a game lol) will bleed energy very fast in a high AoA pull, but will retain the ability to control and point the nose well into single digit speeds. This is good and bad. It allows you to nearly turn on a dime and get the snapshot that few other aircraft could (as you see me do in Hummingbirds tacview), but if you miss you will be low on energy, so don’t miss! (Which I did in that video, and paid for it) :)

[Hummingbird]

Yeah, what hummingbird didn’t show you is the 10 other tracks where I smoked him, sometimes only a half turn post merge :megalol:

 

I say the above in jest, we had a real good time and will no doubt be back at it again soon. By the end we were very evenly matched.

 

Don't worry I made sure to mention that :D

 

Flown to it's the strengths the F/A-18 so far seems to be the toughest opponent for the Tomcat in a guns only fight. Contrary to expectations going fast to retain a lot of excess energy past the merge and fightining in the vertical doesn't really work well against the F/A-18 (atleast not a clean one). Instead quickly throwing the cat around in a min radius turn and subsequently attempting to force a one circle fight maintaining around 300-325 knots has so far proven the safest way forward. Should you succeed in forcing the one circle fight the superior STR of the Cat will then eventually have it end up on the F/A-18's tail. The F/A-18 is by no means defenceless in this situation however, as the carefree handling coupled with superior extreme AoA characteristics often allows it to reverse the situation by forcing overshoots - and if you overshoot an F/A-18 you're often in big trouble due to the F/A-18's extreme nose pointing ability. Thus if you sense this is about to happen there is only one option, go up up up, and then once you see his nose fall reverse and come down behind him again. We've got a good track of this that I will post later.

 

PS: It took quite a few deaths by the hands of the Hornet (expertly flown by Sandman, who also turned out to be an airforce pilot [what is it with me and attracting these?? ]) to finally figure this one out, partly due to initial issues with keeping visual (damn water again) but more so due to incorrect expectations in regards to the vertical capabilities of the Hornet - and ofcourse finally & mostly the expert piloting by Sandman. Was a real learning experience for all parties.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Hummingbird

[Hummingbird]

 

The only thing the Tomcat would do that gave me any real angst was force a 2 circle rate fight at less than 300kts. In that specific case, the Tomcat would outrate the Hornet. At 300-350kts, the hornet easily out rated the Tomcat, and had enough energy to bring the nose into lead pursuit for the guns shot.

 

Other than not allow him to force a slower rate fight, I’ve yet to find a counter to that tactic - but I will! :devil:

 

It seemed in the vast majority of cases outside this one tactic, the Hornet had superior turn, and did so with much lower pilot workload.

 

The point where I felt I was outturning you seemed to be around 0.6 Mach, which makes sense as this is where the Tomcat really pulls.

 

Initially I was very afraid to attempt a slow speed merge though, which cost me. It wasn't until I stopped going M 1.0 at the merge and instead aimed for 0.7 and aggressively pulled the cat around post merge that things became even.

 

We definitely need to do this again soon!

[Whiskey11]

Great flying and thank you for putting that video together!

 

I watched the Tacview and maybe I am missing something, but it seems to me that if flown by a human pilot, the Hornet could have achieved a guns kill on you several times by trading it's excess energy with a high AoA pull and pointed it's nose wherever it wanted to.

 

Does the Hornet FM flown by a human pilot retain energy like the AI did in this video?

 

I'd agree, PLENTY of times in both this video AND the MiG-29S video in which a human pilot would have risked the energy bleed to pull nose and take a snap shot. Having done that dogfight with another player before, it's definitely more frustrating how much more nose authority the newer aircraft tend to have.

[Sandman1330]

Initially I was very afraid to attempt a slow speed merge though, which cost me. It wasn't until I stopped going M 1.0 at the merge and instead aimed for 0.7 and aggressively pulled the cat around post merge that things became even.

 

Yeah that would make a huge difference!

[AngryMustang]

I keep getting beaten by F18s and F15s left and right. (play mostly on modern DDCS server) And when I look at the score board all the F15s and F18s have the most kills while the F14 players barely have any.

 

I thought it could be that the plane is new for some people but we are already getting past that stage.

 

The only time I am ever decent in multiple player is when i am on the F15.

 

What do you guys think? How does the F14 stand up to other fighters..?

The F14 is the strongest BVR plane at the moment with the Phoenix. At low alt the high pk range is 15-20NM which is already double the range of Aim120/R27ER. It is very hard to run from a F14 because of the strong motor of the Phoenix. However, it is required to have a human rio to be effective since Jester tend to panic and make confusing calls. Random missile call and yelling buddy spike when I have an enemy locked in PAL mode.

[jcdata]

Great flying here

 

 

 

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