How far can you spot in VR?

[VC]

I got a new PC recently, i5-9600k, rtx 2080, 32GB RAM, SSD. My headset is the Vive.

 

I was looking to spend a lot more time in DCS, especially MP (previous rig was holding me back and the latter was almost unplayable). I flew out on BuddySpike Caucasus last night and I felt basically blind when it came to going from BVR to WVR.

 

I know this is a topic that has been discussed a lot but for me, not to a satisfactory conclusion, especially not for MP where the mod that helps fails IC. And a lot of the threads are old and info may be outdated. I've read the threads, watched the YouTube videos and optimised my settings as best I can, but I still want to reopen the discussion.

 

Anyway, I did some testing, and it turns out I basically can't see a fighter sized target beyond 7 nautical miles regardless of settings. Not I as the human can't see it, it physically doesn't render. PD anywhere from 1.0 to 1.6, knowing exactly where to look (target radar locked), clear sky behind the target, staring at the diamond... and the dot in the middle doesn't appear until 7 miles away at best, 4 miles away at worst. Despite everything I've read, PD 1.0 was actually far worse than PD 1.5 for spotting.

 

So I want to ask, is this normal? Is this what other VR users simply get used to and try to work around? How far away can you spot a fighter in VR? How big a disadvantage are you actually at compared to someone on a screen?

[Buckeye]

You're doing better than me then, probably due to the Vive having a lower resolution than my two most recent HMDs: Odyssey+ and now Pimax 5K+.

 

For me it all depends on the conditions. I can usually see fighters up to about 3-4nm, then they sometimes just disappear. I've taken off in MP in short trail of a friendly fighter and by the time I get wheels and flaps up, set my radar how I want it, get my CM turned On and into Man1 profile, and look back up...if they stayed in burner after taking off, while I didn't...they have totally vanished. Pretty terrible.

Edited April 2, 2019 by =Buckeye=

[metzger]

This is DCS issue rather than VR. On a monitor you just have much higher zoom so if you know where to look, you zoom 10x in order to see, otherwise it is the same sh*t. At least from my experience. Against terrain and/or sea, it is even worst..

[Mr_sukebe]

Spotting is probably not far off being real world accurate.

My issue is aircraft identification, which is truly abysmal in VR.

[Strikeeagle345]

with my Odyssey+ I can see tankers at 25nm and fighters at 12-15nm depending on their size.

[cercata]

7nm with VR Zoom or Without it ?

I don't know the exact distance, but some time when zooming in, the plane(s) apears, and when zooming out dissapears.

 

I have problems spoting with Oculus,but i thought it was because of my GTX 1060.

[VC]

Thanks for the replies, a variety of sometimes contradictory experience, to be expected.

 

 

 

This is DCS issue rather than VR. On a monitor you just have much higher zoom so if you know where to look, you zoom 10x in order to see, otherwise it is the same sh*t. At least from my experience. Against terrain and/or sea, it is even worst..

 

 

Well, I guess in a merge you know roughly where to look but not exactly, and even with the VR zoom the FoV is too restrictive to find someone unless they're already locked. I'd like to be able to just look and see but if Zoom is the answer then I'll practice with that a bit more.

 

 

 

Spotting is probably not far off being real world accurate.

 

 

Do you mean seeing a fighter at 7nm is realistic? I would tend to agree, but it still feels like I can't see other people who seem to see me fine. Might be lack of practice. Definitely had a flight with a squadmate where he could see the enemy and I couldn't despite him giving very exact calls for where I should look. Maybe screen spotting is unrealistically good?

 

 

 

with my Odyssey+ I can see tankers at 25nm and fighters at 12-15nm depending on their size.

 

 

Wow, OK that's scary. Is that without zoom though?

 

 

7nm with VR Zoom or Without it ?

I don't know the exact distance, but some time when zooming in, the plane(s) apears, and when zooming out dissapears.

 

I have problems spoting with Oculus,but i thought it was because of my GTX 1060.

 

 

No VR zoom. Yeah sure you can zoom but as I said above you don't always know where they are exactly enough for that to work. I have exactly the same thing with targets visible zoomed but disappearing zoomed out, but to me normal view is more important because you need to scan a lot of sky fast sometimes and you lose perspective and SA when zoomed in.

[cercata]

I have exactly the same thing with targets visible zoomed but disappearing zoomed out, but to me normal view is more important because you need to scan a lot of sky fast sometimes and you lose perspective and SA when zoomed in.

Agree

 

It seems more a game engine problem, than a VR problem. On monitor did you spot from further than 7nm without zoom ?

[VC]

Agree

 

It seems more a game engine problem, than a VR problem. On monitor did you spot from further than 7nm without zoom ?

 

You know what, I have never played the game outside of VR. I had VR before I got into DCS. I've booted it a few times 2D to set up controls, test things, but my graphics settings are tuned to VR and it's not even full screen, never flown an actual mission in 2D.

 

EDIT:

 

I don't know why I didn't think of this before. I did a quick test flying the same test mission on screen, just changed resolution to my full screen (2560 x 1440) without changing any other settings. The pixel for the enemy aircraft renders at about 8-9 nm with no zoom, but due to the high resolution of the display the pixel is tiny, so the target is not clearly visible until about 7nm anyway. Tried again in 1920 x 1080, same result.

 

So you're right, it's DCS not VR. I feel a lot better now!

 

Still, there are people saying they can see a lot further than that. I wonder how...

Edited April 2, 2019 by VC

[falcon_120]

You know what, I have never played the game outside of VR. I had VR before I got into DCS. I've booted it a few times 2D to set up controls, test things, but my graphics settings are tuned to VR and it's not even full screen, never flown an actual mission in 2D.

 

EDIT:

 

I don't know why I didn't think of this before. I did a quick test flying the same test mission on screen, just changed resolution to my full screen (2560 x 1440) without changing any other settings. The pixel for the enemy aircraft renders at about 8-9 nm with no zoom, but due to the high resolution of the display the pixel is tiny, so the target is not clearly visible until about 7nm anyway. Tried again in 1920 x 1080, same result.

 

So you're right, it's DCS not VR. I feel a lot better now!

 

Still, there are people saying they can see a lot further than that. I wonder how...

 

I did a thread a while back discussing this, basically, due to the way DCS renders thing, a low resolution VR headset as the Rift or VIVE is actually better due to the bigger pixels, but only GIVEN THAT (and this is just my personal experience):

 

1-You keep post processing to the lowest you can bear, for me is No AF an MSA x2

2-You use a low PD, in my case I use PD1.0.

 

If you try with those setting you will find that you can spot fighters quite far, you won't be able to ID them but you see a black dot in the sky, in my opinion, if you want to be competitive in MP, this is the way to go to avoid going blind into the dogfight.

 

The downside is of course visual clarity and detail, but in my personal case I can live with that and my GTX1070 is thankful also, cause I can play VR without stutters and with high FPS which also helps.

[VC]

I did a thread a while back discussing this, basically, due to the way DCS renders thing, a low resolution VR headset as the Rift or VIVE is actually better due to the bigger pixels, but only GIVEN THAT (and this is just my personal experience):

 

1-You keep post processing to the lowest you can bear, for me is No AF an MSA x2

2-You use a low PD, in my case I use PD1.0.

 

See, I thought I "knew" that as well, but when I went to PD 1.0 my spotting went to hell too. I could barely see the dot at 4nm. Back to PD 1.5 and I could see 7 miles again. So for me PD 1.5 is the best compromise between clarity, performance and spotting.

 

I don't use MSAA at all though, I knew about that one. Does AF actually affect spotting much? That's one I didn't really test except for checking between 8x and 16x for performance. Maybe I'll try that too!

[Echo179]

I did a thread a while back discussing this, basically, due to the way DCS renders thing, a low resolution VR headset as the Rift or VIVE is actually better due to the bigger pixels, but only GIVEN THAT (and this is just my personal experience):

 

1-You keep post processing to the lowest you can bear, for me is No AF an MSA x2

2-You use a low PD, in my case I use PD1.0.

 

If you try with those setting you will find that you can spot fighters quite far, you won't be able to ID them but you see a black dot in the sky, in my opinion, if you want to be competitive in MP, this is the way to go to avoid going blind into the dogfight.

 

The downside is of course visual clarity and detail, but in my personal case I can live with that and my GTX1070 is thankful also, cause I can play VR without stutters and with high FPS which also helps.

 

I'm curious what happens if you have the PD in game set at 1 (or even lower), but the Oculus Tray Tool or SteamVR settings at 1.5? Don't really have the time as of now to test these things against each other, but I'm curious if it would change anything.

[VC]

I'm curious what happens if you have the PD in game set at 1 (or even lower), but the Oculus Tray Tool or SteamVR settings at 1.5? Don't really have the time as of now to test these things against each other, but I'm curious if it would change anything.

 

I tested this, not with Oculus (because I have Vive), but with Steam VR. So PD 1.0 + SteaVR to 225% is the same amount of supersampling as PD 1.5 + SteamVR to 100%. As far as I can tell there's no difference in terms of visual quality or performance, so you can supersample in game or in your VR tool and it won't matter which.

 

I also tested AF off, 8x and 16x and it seems AF has no impact on spotting airborne targets, at least not against the sky.

[Knock-Knock]

For me its PD 1.0 and 2x MSAA, that gives me very good dot spotting - and better performance than no MSAA and increased PD. I spot fighter sized targets at 10nm give and take, depending on their size. I will need to know where they are though, cause it will be very faint at that distance. Tanker sized contacts, about 3 times as far.

Tried without MSAA and still PD 1.0, that gave me worse spotting distance.

 

One thing I need to test, is if the games atmospheric effects have an impact on spotting distance. I have a feeling it does. So being down low and spotting in the general direction of the sun, relative warm weather, fair amount of haze, compared to being up very high in the clearer air.

[VC]

For me its PD 1.0 and 2x MSAA, that gives me very good dot spotting

 

 

This was my setting with my old rig that couldn't handle any PD at all. My spotting was OK but I didn't measure distances to know if it's actually better or worse than now. I might try this again to check, but my instruments and everything else looks so much better with PD 1.5 I'd have to see a really huge improvement in spotting to go back to PD 1.0.