[BUG] ILS course

[some1]

It's not possible to adjust course and heading indicators if HSD is in AWL/PCD mode. The knobs don't even move.

 

But it is possible to make these adjustments first in TACAN mode and then switch to AWL/PCD.

Edited April 15, 2019 by IronMike

[104th_Maverick]

AFAIK you set the Datalink to the Carrier before putting the HSD into AWL/PCD mode.

 

This then auto sets the carrier final approach course in the HSD so you don't have to manually change it.

I'll look in to it further however and see if its the correct behaviour.

[QuiGon]

ILS (or ICLS rather), doesn't depend on datalink, does it? Unlike ACLS the ICLS works with radio signals recieved by the ARA-63. So to make it work you have to tune that on your ICLS panel to the correct ICLS channel that is being used by the carrier. This channel has to be set and activated for the carrier in the mission edtor. By default it is not set, so there is no ICLS available untill you activate it in the mission editor!

[some1]

By default it is not set, so there is no ICLS available untill you activate it in the mission editor!

 

Even if it's set and working, the hdg/course knobs still don't move in AWL mode. You have to switch to TACAN to adjust ICLS course.

[TonyG]

You shouldn’t need to adjust ICLS course, it’s not like a civilian ILS where you need to dial a radial.

 

Just turn it on and follow the steer commands.

[some1]

Ok, maybe the topic name was a bit misleading, so you guys started discussing irrelevant things.

 

Yeah, you don't have to dial a radial to see deviation bars in ICLS, or civilian ILS for that matter. But in AWL/PCD mode the HSD displays TACAN information, so it should be possible to adjust course. Yet the knobs are, literally, locked in place.

 

Looks like the bug was not fully fixed, the display was corrected to show TACAN but controls were not adjusted to match the display function:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=236762&highlight=icls

Edited April 8, 2019 by some1

[Ramsay]

You shouldn’t need to adjust ICLS course, it’s not like a civilian ILS where you need to dial a radial.

 

You'll follow the TACAN radial to intercept the ICLS 'beam', so being able to adjust/view the TACAN course and deviation is important during the initial ICLS intercept.

 

Just turn it on and follow the steer commands.

 

To avoid over steer when correcting for the ICLS cues, I reference the TACAN direction i.e. +/- 5°, so IMHO TACAN is a secondary instrument.

 

In the Hornet you might run ACLS, ICLS and TACAN together to cross check and so that in the event of losing one or more signals the pilot has a fallback ACLS --> ICLS --> TACAN

 

I'm not sure if we can have ICLS on the HUD and ACLS on the VDI in the Tomcat, but it sure looks like a bug when you can't adjust/turn the HSD course knob with AWL/PCD selected but need to change steering modes to adjust the TACAN course when it isn't the primary steering mode.

[some1]

[TonyG]

 

That’s the manual for the A model.

 

Here’s the same page out of the B manual.

 

[Cobra847]

We'll check this out; but regardless; the knobs being frozen in place doesn't seem intentional either way.

[grant977]

Too add to this the localizer seems to whip over pretty quick even with 15 to 25 degree offset. It barley gives me any warning then I feeling like I’m chasing it. With that said tell me if it’s something I’m doing wrong? I have icls set with the correct frequency.

[Victory205]

Should take about a 2-3 crab to track the Loc. If the ship turns, the Loc will slam against the side of the VDI so hard that you can hear it. It's written "ShIT" on the LSO book. "Ship In Turn".

 

The compass should settle down after launch. You can also fast sync it on the compass panel.

[VampireNZ]

Too add to this the localizer seems to whip over pretty quick even with 15 to 25 degree offset. It barley gives me any warning then I feeling like I’m chasing it. With that said tell me if it’s something I’m doing wrong? I have icls set with the correct frequency.

 

The sensitivity of ILS guidance greatly increases as you get closer to the source, so say if you were at max range for the ILS system and approaching the localiser at 15 degrees, you will find it won't 'whip over pretty quick'.

As you get closer you need to maintain the needles central and make positive corrections to maintain them there.

Also don't expect to intercept the ILS at 5nm without the 'whip over' you mention unless you are very close to the desired course already. Also remember the ILS source is offset and moving L to R so not your usual ILS approach.

[some1]

That’s the manual for the A model.

 

Here’s the same page out of the B manual.

 

 

Context matters.

 

The manual you quote is for EGI equipped Tomcat, Not the one modelled by Heatblur. EGI controls the CRS setting automatically, also manual CRS can be entered by RIO in the CDNU, somewhat like in the A-10C.

 

Heck, even switch panel is different than in HB F-14B.

Edited April 9, 2019 by some1

[Ramsay]

Too add to this the localizer seems to whip over pretty quick even with 15 to 25 degree offset. It barley gives me any warning then I feeling like I’m chasing it. With that said tell me if it’s something I’m doing wrong? I have icls set with the correct frequency.

 

The ICLS localiser is proportional for +/- 6°, beyond those limits, the coded microwave beam gives full deflection.

 

The ICLS glide slope is proportional for +/- 1.4°, above those limits the coded microwave beam gives full deflection.

 

The AN/SPN-41A Instrument Carrier Landing System is a pulse coded scanning beam (PCSB) emitter that transmits elevation and azimuth guidance signals to appropriately equipped Navy and Marine Corps aircraft.

 

The AN/SPN-41A radiates two coded microwave beams into the approach volume behind the ship.

 

The signal coverage from each beam is approximately 20-degrees to either side of centerline and 0 to 10-degrees above the horizon for a range of 50 miles.

 

For pictures/more info search for "Analysis of the Instrument Carrier Landing System Certification P.pdf" by A Prickett - ‎2003

[grant977]

One more question guys is the localizer set to base recovery or final bearing?

[Ramsay]

One more question guys is the localizer set to base recovery or final bearing?

Final Bearing, ACLS, ICLS and IFLOLS are guiding you along the glide slope to the wires/touchdown point.

[key_stroked]

Can confirm, the knobs won't move unless you're in TACAN mode for the HSD.

[IronMike]

Marked as NO BUG, but added the crs knob not moving unless in tacan to our internal tracker.

[some1]

Marked as NO BUG, but added the crs knob not moving unless in tacan to our internal tracker.

 

Uh, you have the quote from NATOPs how it should work a few posts above. Unless you plan to add EGI to your Tomcat...

[IronMike]

Uh, you have the quote from NATOPs how it should work a few posts above. Unless you plan to add EGI to your Tomcat...

 

 

 

 

the physical knob should still move

[Ramsay]

Should take about a 2-3 crab to track the Loc.

 

I need to fly a ~10° crab if the carrier BRC is 270°T in the Caucasus (MV E +6°)

 

• BRC = 270°T = 264°M

• FB = 264-9 °M = 255°M

 

Using Tacan I get the 255°M radial with a good HSD compass reading at 20 NM.

 

However by the time I reach ~10 NM the HSD compass has drifted and I fly 245°M in the Tomcat to stay on the 255°M TACAN radial and/or ACLS/ICLS localiser.

 

There's a light tail wind in the mission but it has negligible effect on the Hornet which flies 255°M to touchdown.

 

From what I've read, HB are modelling the carrier's magnetism.

 

But I'm surprised the effect is as large as it is, does it seem correct ?

 

Tested DCS Open Beta 2.5.4.29585

Edited April 14, 2019 by Ramsay

[IronMike]

Uh, you have the quote from NATOPs how it should work a few posts above. Unless you plan to add EGI to your Tomcat...

 

 

 

 

Ok, I see what you mean now, my bad. Reopened as bug, we will investigate this further. Thank you.

[some1]

:thumbup:

 

Sorry for not being very clear in the first post.