Valve Index Hands On

[TrollingThunder]

I tried some CPU benchmarks and I get full power of the processor, did you have problems with these kind of tests?

 

 

No, showed proper boost in hwinfo64 during stress tests and benchmarks. It is really wierd. I have an intel cpu on x299 chipset, and I suspect there might be some wierdness from that. Why it works so much better in a KVM/QEMU VM with VFIO passthrough I will leave to smarter people than me.

[Wicked.-]

Have been using the Index for about four weeks now and really like it, i'm having to make compromises like running without MSAA and at 80Hz so that I can maintain a steady 40Hz.

 

I'm sure this question has been asked many times before but what would investing in a RTX 2080Ti bring to the table ?... would it allow me to turn MSAA back on and sustain 45Hz (90Hz mode) down the Dubai strip?.

 

 

I notice you are running your 8700 @ 4.8Ghz. Is that all you're able to squeeze out of it? I would try getting it up to 5.0 or 5.1Ghz first before spending $1200-1400 bucks. If you can get a stable overclock at those speeds you will see a noticeable increase in FPS.

 

3 months ago I would have said an upgrade from a 1080ti to an RTX2080Ti was pointless. I saw an increase of only 8 FPS when I upgraded my Zotac Amp 1080ti Extreme, which ran at 1.9ghz to the Asus RoG Strix RTX2080Ti OC, which also runs at 1.9Ghz. I was not a happy dude.... At the time I was still using my CV1 and had just sent a Pimax 5k+ back.

 

Fast forward to today and I do not think I would be getting the same stable performance from the Index with my 1080Ti. While the RTX cards don't specifically address VR, are not faster than the 1080Ti's, they are however built to push 4KUHD resolution at high frame rates. The Index needs a lot of muscle to run at it's native resolution. I don't remember what that resolution is but it boils down to setting custom resolution in SteamVR video tab to 204% or 148% and setting SteamVR DCS Application SS to 138%. Once you're able to run that solidly then you're on to MSAA and shadows if that's you're thing........ Needless to say, these will require even more muscle to run at 40 or 45 FPS consistently.

 

 

So to sum up..

 

 

1. Try and OC your 8700 to 5.0 or 5.1Ghz and if successful

2. Upgrade to a 2080Ti

[imacken]

I notice you are running your 8700 @ 4.8Ghz. Is that all you're able to squeeze out of it? I would try getting it up to 5.0 or 5.1Ghz first before spending $1200-1400 bucks. If you can get a stable overclock at those speeds you will see a noticeable increase in FPS.

 

3 months ago I would have said an upgrade from a 1080ti to an RTX2080Ti was pointless. I saw an increase of only 8 FPS when I upgraded my Zotac Amp 1080ti Extreme, which ran at 1.9ghz to the Asus RoG Strix RTX2080Ti OC, which also runs at 1.9Ghz. I was not a happy dude.... At the time I was still using my CV1 and had just sent a Pimax 5k+ back.

 

Fast forward to today and I do not think I would be getting the same stable performance from the Index with my 1080Ti. While the RTX cards don't specifically address VR, are not faster than the 1080Ti's, they are however built to push 4KUHD resolution at high frame rates. The Index needs a lot of muscle to run at it's native resolution. I don't remember what that resolution is but it boils down to setting custom resolution in SteamVR video tab to 204% or 148% and setting SteamVR DCS Application SS to 138%. Once you're able to run that solidly then you're on to MSAA and shadows if that's you're thing........ Needless to say, these will require even more muscle to run at 40 or 45 FPS consistently.

 

 

So to sum up..

 

 

1. Try and OC your 8700 to 5.0 or 5.1Ghz and if successful

2. Upgrade to a 2080Ti

 

I wouldn’t totally agree with some of that. In my experience the difference between 4.8 and 5.0 on the 8700 is hardly noticeable, and the 2080Ti is faster than the 1080Ti by about 15-20% which can be quite significant in my opinion.

[Wicked.-]

I wouldn’t totally agree with some of that. In my experience the difference between 4.8 and 5.0 on the 8700 is hardly noticeable, and the 2080Ti is faster than the 1080Ti by about 15-20% which can be quite significant in my opinion.

 

 

Fair enough. For me the real world numbers I saw when I benched it compared to my 1080Ti did not justify $1,300. I increased by minimum frames per second by 8. That's $162.50 per frame. As to the 8700 you would know best as

I don't have one. Lastly, the only thing I do with this computer is fly DCS and run associated programs, Discord, SRS and the like. So, I'm not getting that 15-20% that others using 4KUHD monitors are. But, if you have an Index you should at some point get a 2080Ti.

[imacken]

Fair enough. For me the real world numbers I saw when I benched it compared to my 1080Ti did not justify $1,300. I increased by minimum frames per second by 8. That's $162.50 per frame. As to the 8700 you would know best as

I don't have one. Lastly, the only thing I do with this computer is fly DCS and run associated programs, Discord, SRS and the like. So, I'm not getting that 15-20% that others using 4KUHD monitors are. But, if you have an Index you should at some point get a 2080Ti.

 

Well, it wasn’t £1300 difference, as I sold my 1080ti for about £700, so only £600.

Increase of 8 sounds pretty good to me and would represent a 20% increase if you were on 40fps.

For me, it wasn’t about fps though, as in VR I am pretty much fixed on 45 and on my 4K monitor I sync to 60. The 2080Ti produced more headroom to allow settings and eye candy to be ramped up.

Re CPU, I bought a 9900K a few months ago, but returned it as in DCS I could see very little difference compared to my 8700K. Non DCS benchmarks showed a big hike in multi core performance, but very little in single core.

[milkojohns]

Some great stuff in these posts. Been doing some good tuning on the setup and really seeing some benefit. thanks all.

[Badger633]

A lot of thoughts in this forum. Also things sometimes change by each update.

Just fell off the index / reverb fence and ordered the Index.

Is there a current generally accepted best software and settings set up for DCS with a high end machine. If so would really appreciate a heads up.

Thanks

 

I9 900k 5Ghz / Gygabyte 2080ti waterforce / 32Gb ram 3600 / 2tb Samsung m.2 drive

[milkojohns]

Have a look on Page 115, i have the same setup as you and worked well

[Nahemoth]

I tried several configurations posted here but in my rig the performance is low, even if the hardware is quite similar.

[Wicked.-]

A lot of thoughts in this forum. Also things sometimes change by each update.

Just fell off the index / reverb fence and ordered the Index.

Is there a current generally accepted best software and settings set up for DCS with a high end machine. If so would really appreciate a heads up.

Thanks

 

I9 900k 5Ghz / Gygabyte 2080ti waterforce / 32Gb ram 3600 / 2tb Samsung m.2 drive

 

The last 10-20 pages have a lot of good info and different approaches to achieving a balance of quality and FPS performance. Also, some put emphasis on quality visuals, sacrificing some frames per second while others prefer the opposite.

The easiest thing to try is go with the SteamVR recommended resolution setting for your system, leave everything else in SteamVR settings at default and select VR settings in DCS settings page, then start moving your pixel density up in the VR tab. RCNTL PAUSE pulls up your FPS counter and with that, fly an instant action free flight. Dubai seems to be the killer. Big frame rate killers are MSAA, Shadows (both kinds), Pixel Density. Medium frame killers, Trees (start at 80%) view distance (or whatever it's called, start at high), chimney smoke, grass clutter and cockpit global lighting. Things I've not had a use for are Depth of field, SSAA (has no effect in VR) heat blur, motion blur, civilian traffic. All the other options on the settings page set high or greater.

 

I'm done tweaking and as happy as I'll get on my system without new VR optimizations either in DCS or SteamVR. Valve has been on it when it comes to tweaking SteamVR and it has become as seamless to me as Oculus home was on my CV1. Just keep at it. :thumbup:

Edited October 2, 2019 by Wicked.-

[Wicked.-]

I tried several configurations posted here but in my rig the performance is low, even if the hardware is quite similar.

 

OK, have you tried flying DCS on your monitor with high settings and watched hardware monitor? I'd be interested to know if your CPU utilization is still low without VR.

[imacken]

The last 10-20 pages have a lot of good info and different approaches to achieving a balance of quality and FPS performance. Also, some put emphasis on quality visuals, sacrificing some frames per second while others prefer the opposite.

The easiest thing to try is go with the SteamVR recommended resolution setting for your system, leave everything else in SteamVR settings at default and select VR settings in DCS settings page, then start moving your pixel density up in the VR tab. RCNTL HOME pulls up your FPS counter and with that, fly an instant action free flight. Dubai seems to be the killer. Big frame rate killers are MSAA, Shadows (both kinds), Pixel Density. Medium frame killers, Trees (start at 80%) view distance (or whatever it's called, start at high), chimney smoke, grass clutter and cockpit global lighting. Things I've not had a use for are Depth of field, SSAA (has no effect in VR) heat blur, motion blur, civilian traffic. All the other options on the settings page set high or greater.

 

I'm done tweaking and as happy as I'll get on my system without new VR optimizations either in DCS or SteamVR. Valve has been on it when it comes to tweaking SteamVR and it has become as seamless to me as Oculus home was on my CV1. Just keep at it. :thumbup:

 

All good advice, but personally I would leave SteamVR to do the SS and not mix it and DCS PD.

 

One minor correction, it's (left or right) CTRL plus PAUSE to bring up the fps.

[Badger633]

Thanks very much for the feed back. Its a good starting point.

 

Regarding the set up as I am seated in my pit is there a seated set up or do you have to set up room scale?

 

Thnaks

[Badger633]

Just a small point which relates to me using the CV! in VR. Found on the forum a very good tip for a little extra performance. It is to set the "Texturing Filtering Quality" to High performance in the Nvidea Control Panel. Its normally set to Quality. This item has a smudging effect on the textures. By setting to high performance it removes this actually making the dials easier to read and frees up some resource for more fps. Not sure if this is relevant with the index and certainly helps some in CV1 VR. Just thought.

 

Has steam got the equivalent to oculus's ASW and how do you access this.

 

Thanks again

[imacken]

Just a small point which relates to me using the CV! in VR. Found on the forum a very good tip for a little extra performance. It is to set the "Texturing Filtering Quality" to High performance in the Nvidea Control Panel. Its normally set to Quality. This item has a smudging effect on the textures. By setting to high performance it removes this actually making the dials easier to read and frees up some resource for more fps. Not sure if this is relevant with the index and certainly helps some in CV1 VR. Just thought.

 

Has steam got the equivalent to oculus's ASW and how do you access this.

 

Thanks again

 

I'll give that nVidia change of setting a go.

 

Re ASW, yes, on SteamVR it is called Motion Smoothing and it can be switched on or off in the main SteamVR interface.

[Nahemoth]

OK, have you tried flying DCS on your monitor with high settings and watched hardware monitor? I'd be interested to know if your CPU utilization is still low without VR.

 

Using high settings for a resolution of 1920x1200 , I get more reasonable numbers (free flight in Dubai):

 

 

It seems that windows is not so bad here...

Edited October 2, 2019 by Nahemoth

[Wicked.-]

It still doesn't make any sense. Why is CPU usage lower for VR?? It should be lower for a monitor and higher for VR. Probably need to get a screen shot of PL while in VR and in 2D to see what all is running.

[imacken]

It still doesn't make any sense. Why is CPU usage lower for VR?? It should be lower for a monitor and higher for VR. Probably need to get a screen shot of PL while in VR and in 2D to see what all is running.

 

Surely it depends on various factors whether CPU usage is higher or lower for monitor cf VR.

For example, if the monitor DCS settings are everything maxed out and VSYNC off, then all headroom will be used up. It will be using all hardware resources that it can at all times. (Different if VSYNC on, obviously). Whereas, VR is effectively locked at 45fps for anything between 12ms and 22ms frame times, so a lot of the time, it’s not maxing out on GPU/CPU.

[Nahemoth]

The settings for 2D were much higher, that could explain this behaviour... I will do those both tests with PL.

[imacken]

And if not already set, make sure VSYNC is on in NCP or DCS.

[Nahemoth]

And if not already set, make sure VSYNC is on in NCP or DCS.

 

I think it is not set, is it recommended?

[imacken]

I would say defintely, as if you have a 60Hz monitor, then anything you're showing over 60fps is not being rendered correctly and you will get screen tearing. Also means that your GPU/CPU are busting a gut to get to limitless fps!

[Nahemoth]

I would say defintely, as if you have a 60Hz monitor, then anything you're showing over 60fps is not being rendered correctly and you will get screen tearing. Also means that your GPU/CPU are busting a gut to get to limitless fps!

 

Does it have any effect on VR? Or just for 2D monitors?

[imacken]

VR devices sync to their refresh rate, so my Index is at 90Hz therefore limited to 90fps.

Are you using Skatezilla’s Utility to run DCS with different settings for Open Beta/StableVR/non VR?

[Badger633]

Setting up valve index in steam with oculus rift cv1 software still installed.

 

Just as a check I assume I just have to unplug the oculus headset and cameras. Is it just a matter of installing steam vr and plugging in the index headset. Does it work then and dcs uses the new installation. Or do I have to remove the oculus software first. Are there any things from the oculus installation that will impact the index performance.

 

Ideally would like to keep oculus set up until I know I am keeping the index for sure

 

Also do I need to cover any glazed pictures I have on the wall. My computer has glass on all three sides so assume I will have to cover these up to stop laser reflections.

Your experience is much appreciated

 

Thanks