Pronounced slight rolling tendencies (all aircraft)

[ApacheDoctor]

I performed a search and have been unable to find anything (only thing close with reference the PFM of the SU-27).

 

To start, I have had to hand fly a few jets now with no autopilot and trim only. If we accept the common definition that trim is there to relieve control surface pressures, I should be able to trim the aircraft out on all three axes and be able to leave it alone. Granted its rarely the case, but there have been times I have been able to do so.

 

Note-these have all been swept wing underslung mounted engines, to give an idea of what the handling characteristics are. It seems like all DCS aircraft have negative/negative static and dynamic tendencies programmed into them.

 

This includes

A-10C, F-18, F-14, P-51...all seem to be having the same issue that roll tendencies get pronounced with trim inputs. Any chance that this can be looked at? The F-18 seems to be the best but there is always a right rolling tendency to it. No, I am not asymmetrically loaded, fuel is balanced and I can hand fly an aircraft quite well (even in the sim).

[KTFBGB]

You probably have but just in case. Have you checked the axis binding page for your stick where you can add curves etc? Make sure the little black square has the dot in the middle of it. If it doesn’t sit within the box you add dead zone so that it does. Sticks wear out over time or just need the axis fixed some times. I the A-10C and the Hornet and I can trim both out to fly perfectly even after firing a weapon and becoming unbalanced. That makes me wonder if it might be the stick. Would be worth looking at least.

[ApacheDoctor]

Brand new Virpil grip and base-calibrated incessantly and minimal deadzones. That s the thing-no roll tendencies should be there. No stick movement=no tendency for it to roll away. But, yes, thank you for double checking first.

[KTFBGB]

Damn, that’s a nice stick. I’m jealous. I wonder if it is something with the flight model then. Maybe my cheaper stick can over trim or something where the really accurate ones are more realistic? I have no idea.

[ApacheDoctor]

Virpil bases are on an all metal gimbal, and its fairly close to a "real" feel as I can get. That is to say-the stick behaves like a real airplane.

[SVgamer72]

Pronounced slight rolling tendencies (all aircraft)

 

Do you have another sim you can test with to rule out a hardware issue?

 

I have been traveling for work, but I will see if I have the same issue when I can get some stick time (original Virpil base). I have only had about 20 minutes in the A-10C since the patch.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited June 8, 2019 by SVgamer72

[bbrz]

It seems like all DCS aircraft have negative/negative static and dynamic tendencies programmed into them.

A-10C, F-18, F-14, P-51...all seem to be having the same issue that roll tendencies get pronounced with trim inputs. Any chance that this can be looked at? The F-18 seems to be the best but there is always a right rolling tendency to it.

I don't know what you mean with 'negative static and dynamic tendencies programmed into them'. Do you mean negative static/dynamic stability?

That's said, even the rather sensitive F-5 doesn't exhibit any negative stability in pitch and roll.

Zero rolling tendency with e.g. the F/A-18 and the F-5. Must be your sim setup.

Edited June 8, 2019 by bbrz

[Strong05]

Had a similar problem with my VKB gunfighter and turned out to be a loose wire.

[ApacheDoctor]

I don't know what you mean with 'negative static and dynamic tendencies programmed into them'. Do you mean negative static/dynamic stability?

That's said, even the rather sensitive F-5 doesn't exhibit any negative stability in pitch and roll.

Zero rolling tendency with e.g. the F/A-18 and the F-5. Must be your sim setup.

 

Yes the negative and static stability. I get it across all modules. I have double and triple checked my setups. Curves, deadzones, and had it with the Thrustmaster Hawg. While less pronounced its still with the Virpil as well.

[bbrz]

Just tried the A-10, MiG-21/29, Su-27 and F-15. There's definitely no rolling tendency with any of these modules.

Since there's a difference on your setup with different joysticks, it's obvious that it's a setup problem.

[ApacheDoctor]

Ok, sure we will go with that. I will wait until I hear from the Devs...because I m not the only one with this issue.

[bbrz]

Have you tried temporarily increasing the null zone to e.g. 50% and/or disabling they joystick?

Just to make sure, you are testing without any wind and/or turbulence.

[Svsmokey]

I had this problem . I found in my case that it was the rudder pedals causing it . Cycling the pedals before hitting the "fly" button cures it for me . This needs only be done once a session .

The weird rudder also shows up in the control menu . I can see rudder deflection in the axis with no input , until i cycle it once , then all good . It isn't necessary to open "axis tune" . I can see it in the controls grid itself .

[ApacheDoctor]

Alright, guys, apparently my background wasn't clear enough.

 

I was a mechanic on the Apache-while different in that I have worked on the real deal, the principles are the same. I have zeroed, calibrated, and worked with curves and null zones from 1 to 30, as well as gone through several different calibrations and other issues. I can promise you, it is NOT my control setups.

 

As an airline pilot, I have hand flown twin turbine swept wing high performance jets through all phases of flight, and in one case, with the FBW system in an alternate mode. I reference this in case anyone doubts my ability to fly/airmanship capabilities.

 

One thing that HAS worked regarding pitch is setting the force feedback to 0, since I do not have a force feedback stick....but that s for pitch only, nothing to do with roll and yaw. I concur that some rudder pedals are better than others, but again, simple matter of messing within the control settings to dampen some of that out. However, roll is still present with zero rudder input applied. I am going to be getting the Thrustmaster TPR s fairly soon...so we will see if that alleviates this tendency at all. Point being-I shouldn't have to go back through hundreds of dollars worth of equipment to get something to fly straight and level. Sorry, but I think this one squarely lands on the coding.

 

I am working off the premise that if I trim an aircraft out perfectly, I should be able to fly with it hands off-and it should hold it if it IS in trim. Period. Regardless of static or dynamic stability. Aircraft are aircraft. And Ill be damned if I don t know how to trim an airplane out.

[ApacheDoctor]

Yes, zero weather, zero winds. I have tried both USB 3.0 Native and 2.0 native ports. Been through all manner of testing, diagnostic, and calibrations. Disconnections, reconnections, as well as completely wiping out ALL of my keybindings and starting from scratch.

 

And again-back to the premise that an airplane trimmed it won't matter with the wind. At altitude the wind is only going to affect your ground track (course) not your roll stability. Perhaps turbulence/gusts to a point, but you tend to only get roll oscillations in rotor clouds on the leeward side of mountains as well as during wake turbulence.

 

Turbulence aloft is more along the pitch axis rather than anything else.

[bbrz]

I am going to be getting the Thrustmaster TPR s fairly soon...so we will see if that alleviates this tendency at all. Point being-I shouldn't have to go back through hundreds of dollars worth of equipment to get something to fly straight and level. Sorry, but I think this one squarely lands on the coding.

Again, if there's a difference in rolling tendency with different joysticks it's IMO obvious that it's a joystick/setup problem and not 'coding'.

 

Btw, interesting comment about turbulence affecting mainly the pitch axis. Seems your experience is completely different from my experience in the last 17000hrs.

[KTFBGB]

I don’t think anyone was questioning your ability to fly. We were just genuinely trying to help and make sure the basics were covered. It does seem odd that that it’s worse with one stick over the other. And the way you describe how the aircraft is supposed to work when trimmed out, is exactly how it works for me and others on here. I set the trim and until something changes like firing a weapon and becoming unbalanced, they fly perfectly with no input from me. So if it works for us then it shouldn’t be a coding issue. Have you ran a DCS repair to make sure no files are corrupt? Have you tried updating your USB drivers? Is it possible that there could be a scripting error in the Device software vs. the DCS input lua. File?

[Ironhand]

Alright, guys, apparently my background wasn't clear enough.

 

I was a mechanic on the Apache-while different in that I have worked on the real deal, the principles are the same. I have zeroed, calibrated, and worked with curves and null zones from 1 to 30, as well as gone through several different calibrations and other issues. I can promise you, it is NOT my control setups.

 

As an airline pilot, I have hand flown twin turbine swept wing high performance jets through all phases of flight, and in one case, with the FBW system in an alternate mode. I reference this in case anyone doubts my ability to fly/airmanship capabilities.

 

One thing that HAS worked regarding pitch is setting the force feedback to 0, since I do not have a force feedback stick....but that s for pitch only, nothing to do with roll and yaw. I concur that some rudder pedals are better than others, but again, simple matter of messing within the control settings to dampen some of that out. However, roll is still present with zero rudder input applied. I am going to be getting the Thrustmaster TPR s fairly soon...so we will see if that alleviates this tendency at all. Point being-I shouldn't have to go back through hundreds of dollars worth of equipment to get something to fly straight and level. Sorry, but I think this one squarely lands on the coding.

 

I am working off the premise that if I trim an aircraft out perfectly, I should be able to fly with it hands off-and it should hold it if it IS in trim. Period. Regardless of static or dynamic stability. Aircraft are aircraft. And Ill be damned if I don t know how to trim an airplane out.

 

Somewhere under one of the Options tabs is a reference to force feedback. Make sure that isn’t selected. All sorts of odd trim things happen to people who have it inappropriately marked.

[Lixma 06]

Trying to find the center point after trimming can be difficult, and it'll be most notable in the roll axis if you're even slightly off-center.

 

Try CTRL-T to reset the trimmers to neutral (if the module allows it). If the aircraft continues to roll one way or other then the problem lurks elsewhere.