What do you all think?

[centermass]

http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=24779

 

This would not be a problem if the G modeling were not as it is, but that is another story...

 

This was a problem in Falcon, but they fixed it in the DF module. No fuel dumping is possible. From what I understand dumping fuel is not possible in the real F-16. I'm not sure if it is or is not for the real jets in this game.

 

Which brings up the point of this post. It would be cool if the game had more settings to control the fuel and ordinance that are allowed in game, server regulated. This way you could control what people have to start with fuel and ammo wise.

 

I'm not saying this should happen in FC or BS, but it would be nice to have. What do you all think? :pilotfly:

[GGTharos]

Fuel dumping is possible on any jet that has a fuel dumping mechanist which should be pretty much most of'em.

 

If you need that much regulation, you're playing a sport, so go ahead, chair a committee and start writing ISO standard documentation for it ;)

[Boneski]

In the Viper the fuel pump dump switch is tied down by the jet

crew chief. It would take some work to untie that wire in the air.

[centermass]

Fuel dumping is possible on any jet that has a fuel dumping mechanist which should be pretty much most of'em.

 

If you need that much regulation, you're playing a sport, so go ahead, chair a committee and start writing ISO standard documentation for it ;)

 

You are correct, you notice that little banner at the top right of the site?

 

Dogfighting Cup????? hmmmmmmmm So it is a big deal for some of us. :thumbup:

 

BTW you come on hyperlobby when you think your ready. ;)

[GGTharos]

And this happenned in the dogfighting cup?

[centermass]

Don't know, that dogfighting cup is not an option for me. It would be a concern though if they opened it up for world wide competition.

 

Similar to the dogfighting ladder for Falcon. http://dogfighting-league.com/

 

Any flavor of Falcon can participate.

 

I'll be in Hyperlobby waiting for ya...

[GGTharos]

You can wait forever, it has no bearing on this conversation whatsoever - not sure why you keep bringing it up.

 

So this wasn't the cup ... the guy tricked his opponent by dumping fuel and getting a lighter and thus more maneuverable aircraft ... yep, sneaky ... and so much whining over it now. Fun :D

[A.S]

..

 

Ok i see there is only one way to show:

 

He is waaaaaaaay better then me and he blast me out of sky like shit !!!

 

Have fun Tech being on the spot !!

 

Go and fly with him self <<<<<<<<< that is my proof and answer........

 

if you feel something fishy.......... shit happens

[thereminqblank]

I'm pretty sure that during a real life dogfight the pilots would try anything to get the upper hand without stopping to think "Wait a second, is that 'fair'?"

[VMFA-Blaze]

Anyway.... This option will most likely not even be considered by ED until a much later time in the future, if at all...

 

Fast movers and Lock On isn't ED's concern at the present time... I've heard that there might possibly be one final patch.. But that I'm sure ED hasn't really had time to even look at this issue...

Your guess is as good as mine regarding the future of the Jet Sim.... :smilewink:

 

~S~

 

Blaze

[centermass]

I keep bringing it up because you talk the talk but don't walk the walk. You talk like you know, but I would like for you to show that you do. therefore, it has bearing.

 

Your last comment goes back to what I said about the G modeling. If a guy drops his fuel a veteran pilot will recognize the opponents better turning / climbing ability and then use fuel against the opponent. But the speeds that need to be flown by the current G modeling don't allow proper extension and returns into the fight.

 

Let me know when your ready to start walking...

[Frostie]

Who cares dogging is for girls , get yourself a big fat missile and shove it somewhere that it'll do some damage, you'd be wishing you could suck fuel back in with one of them on your ass.:D

[centermass]

I'm pretty sure that during a real life dogfight the pilots would try anything to get the upper hand without stopping to think "Wait a second, is that 'fair'?"

 

 

Nowhere have I seen in any manual that dropping fuel is a part of BFM.

 

A pilot might drop fuel over the ocean or enemy territory to gain angles in a dogfight, but I doubt it.

[centermass]

Anyway.... This option will most likely not even be considered by ED until a much later time in the future, if at all...

 

Fast movers and Lock On isn't ED's concern at the present time... I've heard that there might possibly be one final patch.. But that I'm sure ED hasn't really had time to even look at this issue...

Your guess is as good as mine regarding the future of the Jet Sim.... :smilewink:

 

~S~

 

Blaze

 

I'm not saying this should happen in FC or BS, but it would be nice to have.

.

[centermass]

Who cares dogging is for girls , get yourself a big fat missile and shove it somewhere that it'll do some damage, you'd be wishing you could suck fuel back in with one of them on your ass.:D

 

 

 

This what people who don't know how to dogfight say. :D

[GGTharos]

There is nothing -to- talk about. You'll prove basically zero zip squat and nada, because this isn't about -me-, this is about someone being accused of cheating, and your basic ensuing witch-hunt.

 

<rant deleted>

 

If you want the problem fixed, provide a track of what happened. If all you want to prove is that you're better in BFM than I, go waste someone else's time.

 

AS is certainly handling this a whole lot better - he's not roping in people who aren't involved in this little situation.

 

I keep bringing it up because you talk the talk but don't walk the walk. You talk like you know, but I would like for you to show that you do. therefore, it has bearing.

 

Your last comment goes back to what I said about the G modeling. If a guy drops his fuel a veteran pilot will recognize the opponents better turning / climbing ability and then use fuel against the opponent. But the speeds that need to be flown by the current G modeling don't allow proper extension and returns into the fight.

 

Let me know when your ready to start walking...

[Kula66]

Why is dumping fuel cheating?

 

He runs the risk of running out of fuel during the fight and then loosing. The other side just has to keep him out of his six for a while longer and he dies - plus both sides can do it!

[*Rage*]

I'm pretty sure that during a real life dogfight the pilots would try anything to get the upper hand without stopping to think "Wait a second, is that 'fair'?"

 

Did you say bye to your loved ones and send your lawyer a revised copy of your will before you sat down and played tonight??

 

This game is about fun. For most people that means as realistic a simulation as possible and an understanding that cheating and exploits suck.

 

Once you dont know whether you lost because of your own lack of practice or whether it was because the other guy was cheating or abusing an exploit then you'll no longer play and the community will die as a result.

 

As an example see what happened to the F18 online community.

[NotiA10]

quote centermass: Nowhere have I seen in any manual that dropping fuel is a part of BFM.

 

 

so i guess dropping your external fueltanks is cheating also ?

[thereminqblank]

Did you say bye to your loved ones and send your lawyer a revised copy of your will before you sat down and played tonight??

 

This game is about fun. For most people that means as realistic a simulation as possible and an understanding that cheating and exploits suck.

 

Once you dont know whether you lost because of your own lack of practice or whether it was because the other guy was cheating or abusing an exploit then you'll no longer play and the community will die as a result.

 

As an example see what happened to the F18 online community.

 

Take it easy there tiger. Maybe take your own advice outlined in bold.

 

I am totally against cheating or using exploits to win, I was just noting that I do not think dumping fuel before a merge is cheating or abusing an exploit.

 

Surely dropping the weight of the aircraft increases maneuverability, which is why this guy dumps fuel. It's his fault if the dogfight lasts too long and his fuel runs out. So *IMO* there are pros and cons of either strategy

[Boneski]

Not to add or take a way from the cheating thing... only to say if you are not cheating you are not trying hard to win. Cheating is always something that happens in real life training if your orders have not limited your role.

 

Some might come into the fight with more smash then briefed or might cheat on the entry geometry… many creative things happen in the air.

 

As for Jett. gas as a tactic... that’s too creative!! You will Jett. stores and bags if you have them on. But that’s reserved for situations where you can’t avoid a hostile engagement.

 

But the Burner will be you main gas consumer... you will not be venting your tanks just to get the jet light to win one fight.. Reheat and time has dibs on the gas bro!

 

If you did that your next fight is how do you get an empty jet to a safe place weight on wheels?

 

Venting gas is the equivalent to a scorched Earth policy. Talk about growing one eyebrow and losing focus.

 

Also If you can’t win the fight… you don’t vent gas… you turn it to thrust and speed and exit the fight fast. The more gas you have… the longer you can burn your way away from a guy that is out turning you… Get a 10 to 20 mi lead on him… chances are you will live to fight another day in the real world. (No BVR threat)

 

 

In the Viper community there has been 2 situation where it would have been nice to vent gas… both relate to stuck throttles… one was a bad linkage the other was a flight bag getting jammed between the back seat and rear throttle.

 

The Afterburner was stuck on… and with no way to reach or get to the wired down vent switch the burner had to do the work… so even in an emergency… the F-16 does not have a vent check list…. So there is not one for combat ops. This is true for most jets regarding combat ops.

 

Again the game is not limited to real life issues so that might be why you see people doing it.

 

What happens in Lock On is that people don't brief before they fight...

If you preflight and setup the engagement; each player can use the gas weight as part of his/her strategy.. much like a F1 driver.

 

Most people just fly with full gas weight in something Like the 15 or the 27 and get caught assed out with many simulated ton of gas on.

 

So what ends up happening is that you have computer dogfight that last unrealistically long… sometimes 10 mins or more… some thing that would not happen between two guys pulling 9 gs…

 

So is it cheating? Not really… it’s just a creative way of trying to address a failure in planning…

 

Fail to plan… Plan to Fail!

[Kula66]

But hacking the EXE/Process to change you plane .... that is very different!

[Boneski]

True.

[centermass]

There is nothing -to- talk about. You'll prove basically zero zip squat and nada, because this isn't about -me-, this is about someone being accused of cheating, and your basic ensuing witch-hunt.

 

<rant deleted>

 

If you want the problem fixed, provide a track of what happened. If all you want to prove is that you're better in BFM than I, go waste someone else's time.

 

AS is certainly handling this a whole lot better - he's not roping in people who aren't involved in this little situation.

 

I never said anyone was cheating, I don't know what is going on with that and I don't really care. I referenced that last thread because it was an issue brought up, but I started this one to keep the two separated.

 

I was saying how nice it would be if the game was setup so that the server could enforce settings, fuel and ordinance, for a level playing field.

 

I never said that dumping fuel should not be allowed, but that it is not realistic, especially when related to BFM.

 

You came into this thread talking about how we need to have rules and regulations to govern a sport. Some of us care about dogfighting, you may not. You chose to post so you back up your words. You prove that you know what your talking about in the game, not here.

[Alfa]

Enough with the bickering or this thread goes the way of the others on the subject.