the memory leak still exists

[twistking]

Hello,

there is still a memory leak in dcs.

 

 

it's very apparent on my pc which has only 8 gb of ram:

first time of loading into a mission on caucassus i get 50-60fps on high settings, after exiting the mission and loading the same mission again fps is nearly halfed at ~30fps.

 

Closing and restarting dcs is the only way to get back the performance.

 

 

this leak is present since dcs 2.5, if i remember correctly.

i suspect that this is related to dcs not freeing up vram resulting in vram being cached to main ram.

 

 

 

also it does effect pcs with 16gb (i tested it), however it takes more steps for the performance hit to occur (bigger missions, changing caucassus seasons in editor to trigger texture loading of new ground textures etc.).

 

 

i reported it multiple times already and i suspect that this is one of the many reasons people have trouble with performance. on maschines with 16gigs of ram the effect is less obvious and might be harder to troubleshoot, but the leak is still there.

this needs to be fixed.

[BIGNEWY]

Hi twistking

 

what are your pagefile settings currently?

[twistking]

my page file is "managed by windows" (default setting).

however at the moment windows has allocated a whopping 9gb as pagefile, but i believe this is because of some very ram intensive processing i did recently.

 

 

i don't believe that page file has anything to do with it also, since when the "leak" hits (i call it a leak, even if strictly technically it may not be one), i don't see higher usage of system storage (i would expect high ssd activity because of constantly swapping data between ram and cache).

also i don't have stuttering or lag but just the low fps with seemingly constant frame timing.

the latter is the reason for me to think that it has more to do with Vram/ram than with ram/pagefile.

 

 

right now, i don't have any program to monitor vram usage, but if this would help, i can download one.

 

 

also as long as i'm running on my old maschine i can live with the workaround of restarting dcs after every flight. in fact, i get pretty decent performance out of my old pc on the first flight.

 

i'm honestly only posting this, because maybe my performace degredation could be the key for some improvments for everyone.

 

as i already said, i tested on a friends pc (16gb main ram and gtx 970) and i also could archieve a reduction in fps, however it took longer (bigger mission, changing seasons and reloading in editor etc.).

 

 

my specs: i7-860 oc at ~3.4ghz (very old cpu), 8gb ram dual channel, gtx 770 4gb

[BIGNEWY]

We have a few FPS issues the team are working on that maybe related, so you should see improvement in the future.

[twistking]

We have a few FPS issues the team are working on that maybe related, so you should see improvement in the future.

great news! thanks! :thumbup:

 

 

 

one thing i want to add is, that i only play custom missions, that i built myself, that have a limited number of assets (especially aircraft), because of those ram(?) vram (?) concerns.

If i put more than a handfull of high quality aircraft in my mission, i'm immediately down to the "degraded" state, even if those aircraft are just standing "uncontrolled" and out of sight (i suspect texture size is a problem. heatblurs aircrafts - even if only as AI - seem to be big offenders for example).

 

 

I'm bringing this up, because having those problems with a "big" mission, one could easily assume, that it would be just too much load on the cpu, while from my experience it is not a problem of too much AI, but some problem with data management, ram, vram or sth. related to it.

 

 

thanks!

[BIGNEWY]

What is your system spec twistking?

[Rebel28]

It was at the bottom of his second post:

 

 

my specs: i7-860 oc at ~3.4ghz (very old cpu), 8gb ram dual channel, gtx 770 4gb

[BIGNEWY]

It was at the bottom of his second post:

 

 

my specs: i7-860 oc at ~3.4ghz (very old cpu), 8gb ram dual channel, gtx 770 4gb

 

Thanks overlooked it. :thumbup:

[twistking]

hello bignewy,

yesterday i realized, that the degredation also seems to happen with just playing a mission:

As mentioned before - simple, custom mission. No scripting. Cold start at senaki ~60fps, after two hours back on the ground at senaki, now with less AI flying around: ~30fps.

Even after the degredation it's still playable (in the air ~60fps), but near or on the ground the fps loss gets more obvious.

 

I did not notice this behaviour on the NTTR map.

 

Also with the settings i am running (mostly high / very high) on caucassus i completely max out my system ram after a while.

I have not tested if this correlates with the performance degredation.

However - again - i don't see lag spikes or freezes, that i would expect from maxed ram / ram swapping, but just the lower fps.

Also, even after the degredation, i can still get high fps by flying high, or just looking at the sky.

[Havremonster]

It is many Things in this game that the CPU needs to calkulate and for the GPU to render. I remember many years ago when I whent from a TCI 486 mhz to a Pentium 2 and With a 3dfx GPU for not to mention a Voodo 2 GPU card, the different was amasing. One time I messed a little with a 3d program and I remeber there was something like an empty "sphere" and another thing called "Construction" (a filled sphere). The first took like a second or two to render and the other up to some minutes. I think this game has too much to render when it is a lot of planes involved at the same time. Unless you have a really powerfull computer.

[twistking]

[...]

NO NO NO! Please read my posts carefully. One of the reasons i decided to post here (again), is because of this sentiment, that DCS "just needs a powerfull pc to run".

 

 

My Pc is 10 years old, yet i can get 60fps on very high settings, until this degradation kicks in. This has nothing to do with what is on screen at this moment and has nothing to do with how much is going on in the background (AI etc.). The only thing that triggers this degradation seems to be related to some kind of memory filling up (playing or loading scenarios).

Again, please read my previous posts, as i'm beginning to repeat myself.

 

 

Again, i do suspect that many users always experience this state of degraded performance without realizing it.

 

Furthermore i assume, that people report better performance with 32gigs of ram, not because DCS actually needs to store that much data at a time (it's absurd, if you consider that it can run very high settings utilizing only 6gb of ram), but because 32gb gives enough headroom for that memory problem not to trigger (that's why it is technically probably wrong to call this issue a memory leak, since a true leak would also fill up 32gb eventually).

 

 

That said, i'm happy that the devs are working on that issue as per Bignewy's 2nd post in this thread!

Bignewy, let me know, if you need more info. Good luck and thank you!

[BIGNEWY]

We have an issue and fix that is being tested at the moment that occurs after multiple landings.

When it is resolved I think you will see improvement.

[twistking]

We have an issue and fix that is being tested at the moment that occurs after multiple landings.

When it is resolved I think you will see improvement.

 

Thanks (again)!

But i want to stress, that for me (8gb main ram, 4gb vram) this degradation is easily reproduced by simply loading a scenario a second or third time. Absoulutely fail proof is also to change season and then load again.

 

Maybe you could use this for testing internally?

lower spec (ram) machine (very high settings); start dcs; mission editor; caucassus; place plane on ground at senaki; preview mission; note performance; back to mission editor; change season; preview again; note performance.

 

On a higher spec pc with 16gb of main ram and more vram, i found that in addition to the season change, putting many different high quality planes in the mission helped with triggering the degradation.

 

All that without needing to do multiple landings.

 

Thanks for your replies Bignewy.

Again, i'm looking forward to the improvments, however i'm honestly fine with how dcs runs on my oldtimer pc.

It is just, that i cannot imagine, that this is solely a problem of lower specs pcs and - as mentioned - while less reliably, i did manage to trigger the issue on a more powerful pc with 16gb ram.

And given how insanely complex some MP scenarios are (from what i hear), it would not surprise me if this problem could hit on first loading in, even on mid-spec maschines...

Edited September 6, 2019 by twistking

[The Falcon]

I think the amount of memory required by DCS is a problem because it discourages people because it needs a lot of RAM to play some mission and RAM costs.

Think about what the dynamic campaign with these problems will be, 64GB of RAM will be the minimum:no_sad:

[BIGNEWY]

8GB RAM is low for sure, I used to play with 16GB without any issue, only reason I went 32GB was second hand cheap matching pairs to the ones I already had were for sale so I went for it, one reason for sticking with old DDR3 :)

 

ED are aware that 8GB RAM is challenging for some users, which is why 16GB is better for heavy missions and mentioned in recommended specs, lowering settings if you are on 8GB is a good idea.

 

Minimum system requirements (LOW graphics settings): OS 64-bit Windows 7/8/10; DirectX11; CPU: Intel Core i3 at 2.8 GHz or AMD FX; RAM: 8 GB (16 GB for heavy missions); Free hard disk space: 60 GB; Discrete video card NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760 / AMD R9 280X or better; requires internet activation.

 

Recommended system requirements (HIGH graphics settings): OS 64-bit Windows 8/10; DirectX11; CPU: Core i5+ at 3+ GHz or AMD FX / Ryzen; RAM: 16 GB (32 GB for heavy missions); Free hard disk space: 120 GB on Solid State Drive (SSD); Discrete video card NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 / AMD Radeon RX VEGA 56 with 8GB VRAM or better; Joystick; requires internet activation.

 

Recommended VR systems requirements (VR graphics settings): OS 64-bit Windows 8/10; DirectX11; CPU: Core i5+ at 3+ GHz or AMD FX / Ryzen; RAM: 16 GB (32 GB for heavy missions); Free hard disk space: 120 GB on Solid State Drive (SSD); Discrete video card NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 / AMD Radeon RX VEGA 64 or better; Joystick; requires internet activation.

Edited September 6, 2019 by BIGNEWY

[Zlip]

I plant a flag here !

 

I used to play online with no freeze, and some weeks ago my RAM is fully loaded despite a recent PC (1 year) and the 16 GB RAM. It's weird because I can still play single mission without any problem... Was considering a 32GB RAM but...

[twistking]

ED are aware that 8GB RAM is challenging for some users, which is why 16GB is better for heavy missions and mentioned in recommended specs, lowering settings if you are on 8GB is a good idea.

 

 

I absolutely understand that and i'm sure that lowering the settings would give my system some room to breathe.

 

 

I'm not reporting, because i feel that DCS runs bad on my system, but because it runs very well until it doesn't anymore.

Something is clogging up the render pipeline for no good reason and from reading about other peoples struggle with performance i have reason to believe that they constantly operate in that state of degraded perforamnce.

[Drag80]

when the frame rate drops press alt + enter.

 

It solves the problem for me.

[Coxy_99]

Ignore 16GB im at 32GB is the way to go in dcs.

[Havremonster]

8GB RAM is low for sure, I used to play with 16GB without any issue, only reason I went 32GB was second hand cheap matching pairs to the ones I already had were for sale so I went for it, one reason for sticking with old DDR3 :)

 

I think I have asked about this before, but would it be an idea to make an option (for save space and ram use) to make it possible to turn off the option to see a replay after a mission? I guess it must also take some "power" from the computer to calculate and remeber all our flying for be able to show a replay. The replay is screved up anyway...So I feel it is unessesary using of memory.

Many othe games have at least an option for to set how many MB use for replays. It must be a reason for that?

[BIGNEWY]

8GB RAM is low for sure, I used to play with 16GB without any issue, only reason I went 32GB was second hand cheap matching pairs to the ones I already had were for sale so I went for it, one reason for sticking with old DDR3 :)

 

I think I have asked about this before, but would it be an idea to make an option (for save space and ram use) to make it possible to turn off the option to see a replay after a mission? I guess it must also take some "power" from the computer to calculate and remeber all our flying for be able to show a replay. The replay is screved up anyway...So I feel it is unessesary using of memory.

Many othe games have at least an option for to set how many MB use for replays. It must be a reason for that?

 

In saved games DCS folder

 

go to config folder and find or make an autoexec.cfg

 

and add this using notepad++

 

disable_write_track = true

[Havremonster]

In saved games DCS folder

 

go to config folder and find or make an autoexec.cfg

 

and add this using notepad++

 

disable_write_track = true

 

Great! Thank you very much :)

[twistking]

when the frame rate drops press alt + enter.

 

It solves the problem for me.

 

hey Drag80,

thanks for the input. I think i have already tried this without sucsess, but can't remember for sure, so i'll check again net time and will report back.

 

To all the others, please don't post off topic. If you have issues that are not directly related to this, please open another thread to keep it organized. Thanks!

[Havremonster]

"To all the others, please don't post off topic. If you have issues that are not directly related to this, please open another thread to keep it organized. Thanks!

"

 

Cant see any "off topic" here as long as we only want to help with suggestions and ideas.

[twistking]

Cant see any "off topic" here as long as we only want to help with suggestions and ideas.

Suggestions and help is appreciated obviously! thanks!

 

***

 

I did some more testing and while Drag80's solution did not help (alt-tab when performance degrades), i tested to disable "run fullscreen" in options and also disabled the steam overlay:

I did not test it scientifically, but with these changes it seemed that it took longer for the degredation to kick in and it felt as if in the degraded state, i might had some fps more than before. This could have been a placebo though.

 

As the easiest way to get the degredation was changing the season in mission editor, i tested the seasons in caucassus, while monitoring the Vram usage.

I can now say for sure, that every season other than summer seems to load textures on top of summer textures, so even when directly loading into a caucassus autumn mission i would have over 8gb (!) of vram usage ( reported from the dcs system monitor).

Changing the season and loading again would add more usage on top, so i could end up with 15gb of Vram reported by DCS just with me in a mustang doing a ramp start.

 

Closing DCS, starting again and loading into a mission in summer (which seems to be the base texture set) DCS would only report 4gb Vram used.

 

Even though my GPU has only 4gb, i could get good performance even when reported Vram was above 8gb, so i assume that DCS already does some Vram management wizadry in the background.

 

While i could not directly link the state of degraded performance to Vram usage, i still think that they are related.

Even though i could sometimes get the "good" performance with over 8gb reported on first loading in, when the performance degredation hit reported Vram usage was always higher than before the hit.

Example:

 

-mission A. summer caucassus:

#1load: ~60fps ~4200mb Vram

#2load: ~60fps ~4200mb Vram

#3load: ~30fps ~4400mb Vram

-restarting dcs

-mission B. autumn caucassus:

#1load: ~60fps ~8000mb Vram

#2load: ~30fps ~8200mb Vram

(mission A and B are nearly identical, only real difference was the season)

 

My theory at this point:

- Caucassus season textures have a huge Vram foodprint, because seasons other than summer get their textures loaded on top of base set.

- DCS does good work in managing/swapping Vram in the background, allowing even 4gb Gpus to pump out good performance when more than double their Vram sieze gets allocated for Vram data.

- Sometimes the swapping somehow clogs the pipeline, with higher Vram usage meaning higher change of failure

- DCS always adds Vram allocation in use, but never seems to de-allocate Vram. Only way to reset Vram allocation back to "sane" levels is restarting the game.

 

BIGNEWY, can you make a report to the team, based on this assumption, or is it not "scientific" enough?

Again, i'm not so much concerned with the performance on my old machine, but could reproduce this behaviour on a different 16gb/8gbVram pc, so it should be of general concern!

Edited September 10, 2019 by twistking