Store Limitation

[greenmamba]

Hello community :smilewink:

 

In DCS is the store limitation implemented ? I am asking because if my memory serves me well, MK-82'S/84'S are limited to 5.5 G's.

 

I know it is early access and that the video Wags published is to show progress being made. But during the resource he made after droping the bombs he went to 7G's. Standard resource after droping is pulling 5G's maximum. Else the ordinance can be bent or broken and you may not be able to drop the bomb afterwards when you press the pickle button.

 

I also have the F/A-18C and i didn't see that implemented yet. Will it be for the F-16 ?

 

Does ED also plan to implement weather damage ? for example flying into a CB and having the weapons damaged by Hail. Already happened in real life where they flew into a storm and coming out of it the weapons were damaged.

 

Would be nice additions and would make the G management and weather avoidance a nice challenge.

 

What do you guys think of it ?

[QuiGon]

You have the CAT switch to limit the flight control system corresponding to your loadout (light/heavy).

[Geraki]

BUT you need to have stores limitation implemented!!!! ..... cross weight .... FM ....... variations......

[Zylon]

 

I also have the F/A-18C and i didn't see that implemented yet. Will it be for the F-16 ?

 

 

The F18 has it implemented, you can see your current G-Limit on the FCS Page

[NeilWillis]

What do us guys think? We thing it is still in early access. As for storm damage to weapons, I’d say the targeting pod might have a higher priority. That, and actually getting t to early access.

 

In other words, give them a chance to actually tell you they don’t intend to feature weapon g limits before you complain it isn’t a feature in a very early video - which, when you watched it, you were fully aware of!

 

Or is there something about “it isn’t finished yet” you don’tunderstand? The video, is just a demonstration of how you drop bombs, not of the flight parameters of the finished article.

[kengou]

I would be very surprised if CAT I/III wasn't included on day 1. It's a pretty important part of the FLCS. It was also included day 1 in the Hornet, and is there now (not sure why you think it isn't). No reason to suspect it won't be there.

 

 

Weather damage would be interesting but that's a big feature, it is probably a long way off sadly.

[greenmamba]

What do us guys think? We thing it is still in early access. As for storm damage to weapons, I’d say the targeting pod might have a higher priority. That, and actually getting t to early access.

 

In other words, give them a chance to actually tell you they don’t intend to feature weapon g limits before you complain it isn’t a feature in a very early video - which, when you watched it, you were fully aware of!

 

Or is there something about “it isn’t finished yet” you don’tunderstand? The video, is just a demonstration of how you drop bombs, not of the flight parameters of the finished article.

 

What I don't understand is how hype you get and how overly excited you get. Did I touch a nerve ?

[greenmamba]

You have the CAT switch to limit the flight control system corresponding to your loadout (light/heavy).

 

True but that switch is not there to protect the store limitations.

[greenmamba]

Being in CAT III configuration does not stop you from over stressing the stores.

 

And something i really don't understand on this forum is how vindictive some of you get. I know it is an early access and my post was not a critic.

 

This is a forum about the F-16 and i am asking a question. If you don't have something nice to say then just don't write it down. Ignore me if i am a bugger.

 

Those forum nazis are really tiring.

[Harker]

If I understand correctly, you're asking if the stores will get damaged in any way and/or become unusable in case the pilot pulls too many Gs.

 

While I can't know what ED is planning, this feature doesn't exist in any other module right now, so I'm thinking we won't see it here. The only result of over-stressing the airframe right now, is that you can rip your wings off (in some modules) and I think that at least that one is implemented well.

[mvsgas]

Last time I check the Mig-21 module had it. So if you over g the stores, they can/will fly off the pylons. That is a more realistic option that what is implemented in other sims/games.

Edited September 24, 2019 by mvsgas
spelling

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

Last time I check the Mig-21 module had it.

Yup I have seen that too. Looks like that would be a nice thing to have modelled :thumbup:

[Shimmergloom667]

The MiG-19 has it too - I'm fairly certain we will see something similar in the Hornet and Viper, too, but there's a lot on their plate and only so much capacity to make it all happen in the sim at once.

[greenmamba]

If I understand correctly, you're asking if the stores will get damaged in any way and/or become unusable in case the pilot pulls too many Gs.

 

While I can't know what ED is planning, this feature doesn't exist in any other module right now, so I'm thinking we won't see it here. The only result of over-stressing the airframe right now, is that you can rip your wings off (in some modules) and I think that at least that one is implemented well.

 

Yes exactly

[greenmamba]

Sounds promising if one of the modules has it already implemented.

[Harker]

Oh, I didn't know that we had it in the sim! I don't own either the MiG-21 or the MiG-19, so I never saw it and I never really saw it mentioned.

My bad, sorry for the misinformation. I very much hope that ED implements it in their in-house aircraft as well.

[Tomsk]

Last time I check the Mig-21 module had it. So if you over g the stores, they can/will fly off the pylons. That is a more realistic option that what is implemented in other sims/games.

 

I seem to recall that in another simulation involving the F-16 if you over-G the aircraft with stores on you can get hung stores that will not drop.

[mvsgas]

The thing with stores limitation is that it could get to complicated. So the question is: is it worth it for the module creator? (ED or otherwise).

 

You could have a cookie cutter reaction like hung stores, I like the store actually falling off. Not the best answer neither but better in my opinion.

 

Why do I think it could be to complicated for what it worth? Let look at a rocket pod for example. I do not know the limits of a LAU-68, just pick the first one that came to mind.

 

Anyway, pulling more g or going faster that the pod could handle in RL could mean a number of thing and several results. The pod metal skin around the suspension lugs might me stretch or crack. The pod itself by get distorted. Does not mean the pilot may notice. The rockets might be less accurate but the rocket are not very accurate to begin with. Pilot may not even notice until debrief.

 

A different weapon or store may have different effect on different aircraft while hung on different suspension systems. And by hung, I meaning mounted under or when carried by a suspension system like a MAU-12, not hung as in it will not launch or deploy. In aircraft A, weapon B might hit the fuselage while on aircraft C it might fall without issues.

 

Then there is also the number to consider. Most manual I have read, they don't tell you why you should not go faster than "X" nor why you shouldn't exceed this amount of "G". The manuals just say don't do this, so it would be up to the module creator to make up an effect.

 

Also, just because the manual says don't exceed "this" speed, that the weapons will automatically be damage over that speed. Often the limit is there because the weapons was not tested above that speed or G. So again it would be up to the creator to make up an effect.

Edited September 24, 2019 by mvsgas
spelling

[Frederf]

Falling off is pretty extreme. Bending store attachments, damaging stores, bending airframe/skin more like it. Some of the store limits aren't structural but aero heating or other non-obvious effects. Similarly there can be different limits for carriage, firing/release, and jettison and all for different reasons.

 

The CAT I (II) III legal limits and their FLCS limits as set by switch only serve to help avoid departure of controlled flight. You can absolutely exceed store limits, G-limits for stores or the airplane regardless of FLCS laws. The only real protection is the pilot. Naturally different FLCS laws in CAT III switch does help a bit making overstress less likely.

 

However pilot is required to have CAT III switch setting with some configurations as understood by the SMS and the airplane will warn you (similar Mirage).

 

It's good to have damage modeled when equipment is abused beyond regulation limits. This is extra work and takes more knowledge to model than simply physical behavior when everything is in normal range.

[Davee]

Way back in the day - waaaaay back, in another F-16 SIM, I recall that when the aircraft was loaded with A/G ordnance the airframe creaked and groaned when you approached G limits. It did not groan when loaded with A/A ordnance.

 

To me, that was an auditory information that I was reaching certain limits.

 

A nice touch even though not super accurate.