Radar Nuances

[bonesvf103]

Hi,

 

 

Like PLM, if you select VSL HI or LO from the pilot seat, do you have to hold the switch in the desired position until you get a lock? I know you don't in the RIO seat, but what about the pilot? It seems to me when I am in a turning fight and I tap VSL it locks on, but I don't know if it was just coincidence that I happened to tap it right when conditions were right to lock at that moment.

 

 

What happens if the pilot is selecting VSL HI and whilst doing that, the RIO selects VSL LO?

 

Do you have to hold PAL in position until you get a lock also?

 

 

In pulse search, in the Wiki, in the DDD it shows a symbol for "altitude return". What is this and how do you interpret it?

 

 

Also in the DDD, the outermost vertical axis on the right measures closure when in pulse doppler mode and range in pulse mode. Is it the same as the outermost vertical axis on the left?

 

 

When in PDSTT off of what axis do you read the range of the target in the DDD?

 

 

 

In the DDD what does the vertical axis to the left and right of center measure?

 

 

 

Thanks!

 

 

v6,

boNes

[Naquaii]

PLM has to be held until lockon occurs, VSL and PAL does not, they continue until they find something. As for VSL it should be the last one selected, by either crewman.

 

In regards to the altitude return, that's not a symbol, it's a radar artifact created by radar returns in the sidelobes which might be present when at low altitude. This is currently not modelled in DCS though.

 

The scale on the DDD is the same regardless of where on the screen you look, the vertical lines are there to help with reference which azimuth is where.

 

The scales in the vertical axises depends entirely on what range or rate scale is selected and are the same regardless of which you use on the screen. So if set to 10 nm as an example you have to manually work out which of them means what.

 

The exception is in the STT modes were the WCS generates extra rate and range symbols and displays them, in that case both rate and range can coexist but they still correspond to the scales set in rate and range.

[bonesvf103]

Naquaii,

 

 

Thanks for your help.

 

 

 

On this one:

 

 

The scale on the DDD is the same regardless of where on the screen you look, the vertical lines are there to help with reference which azimuth is where.

I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing. I guess to clarify, if you look at the Wiki under

 

http://www.heatblur.se/F-14Manual/general.html#an-awg-9-weapon-control-system-wcs

 

and scroll to Pulse Doppler Single Target Track to the figure labeled "Single Target Track", the right most numbered scale is closure, but what is the leftmost numbered scale? It is numbered differently and there is also a point labeled "vi" I think.

 

 

v6,

boNes

Edited November 7, 2019 by bonesvf103
being a stickler to grammar and typos

[Naquaii]

The thing is that the numbers are a remainder from older DDD versions when you couldn't change the rate scale on the DDD.

 

As you can do that in the version modelled the numbers can't be used. While the WCS will put the generated symbology at certain position on the screen you always have to manually read out what they mean using the set scale at the DDD.

 

And by that I mean that if you have the DDD set to 20 nm and the target is 4/10th up the screen it is 8 nm out. The scale marks remain to help the RIO estimate this.

[bonesvf103]

So is the scale on the far left range then? 0 nm at the very bottom of the scale? What is the scale on the left and right of center? Just azimuth scan limits? What are the tick marks on those scales?

 

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

v6,

boNes

[Naquaii]

It's just a scale to help the RIO visually make out were on the screen the target is.

 

None of them are dedicated to a single task, just think of them as marking a percentage of the whole screen height.

[bonesvf103]

Can you give an example of its use?

 

 

Thanks!

 

 

v6,

boNes

[bonesvf103]

I've another one:

 

 

When I have a target in TWS, with velocity vector shown, in A/C STAB (or attack) display used the vector is supposed to be the target track in relation to your aircraft. However, there are times when I am heading say 275 and the target MC is 272 and yet the vector is pointing toward me. Why is that? We are pretty much co-heading, shouldn't the vector be pointing away from me?

 

 

v6,

boNes

Edited November 9, 2019 by bonesvf103

[r4y30n]

It's pointing where it is because you're gaining on him and he's off to the left. The vectors aren't telling you which way the target is actually traveling, they're telling you how the target is moving relative to you. Makes intercepting super easy because when the vector points straight down you're on a pure pursuit course.

[bonesvf103]

It's pointing where it is because you're gaining on him and he's off to the left. The vectors aren't telling you which way the target is actually traveling, they're telling you how the target is moving relative to you. Makes intercepting super easy because when the vector points straight down you're on a pure pursuit course.

 

 

I'm so used to the way it is displayed in a B Scope like in the F/A-18, so it's hard to wrap my head around it. How do you go about figuring the Target Aspect from the display?

 

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

v6,

boNes

[Home Fries]

 

 

@boNes,

 

What you're talking about are two different things. A-Scope vs B-Scope is whether the radar display extends like a baseball diamond or whether the close in is stretched to the edges of the display to make it square. The DDD is a B-Scope, but remember that the TID isn't really a radar. Think of it more as an integrated SA display with you at the bottom in the Aircraft Stab modes.

 

What you're asking about is absolute versus relative vectors. In the Ground Stab mode (i.e. North Up), the TID displays vectors denoting absolute heading and velocity, whereas in the Aircraft Stab mode (i.e. Heading Up), all velocity vectors are displayed relative to your aircraft. Therefore, in the screenshot displayed, what it shows is that your target bears about 20 degrees left, but you're on a direct closure because his velocity vector relative to you is almost straight down. If the velocity vector is to the side, then you can adjust your heading in that direction (slight left in this case) to zero out the X component of the velocity vector to give you a tighter closure.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Home Fries
Quoted graphic since this post was pushed to page 2

[bonesvf103]

OK, so I should just think of my aircraft as being "stationary" and so all the contacts are "coming" to me as I gain on them and vice versa.

 

 

Cool, thanks.

 

 

So how do you figure target aspect from this display? Go to ground stab and use those absolute vectors?

 

 

v6,

boNes

[Naquaii]

Hi again!

 

Sorry for the late reply, I've been away during the weekend.

 

I've attached an image with the different scales marked.

 

The scale marked red to the left has a synthetic range marker overlaid while in PD-STT.

 

The scale marked blue to the right has a closure rate marker overlaid in either STT mode.

 

In other modes this information is displayed at the correct azimuth on the screen instead if it is available. I.e. closure rate in PD and range in P.

 

The two lines marked green exist to deliniate the 30 degree azimuth mark to the left and right of straight ahead.

 

None of the markers along these scales have any set values except that the bottom of the screen always is range 0 in pulse. Any numbers present are remains of earlier versions of the DDD which couldn't have the scale of the closure rate changed by the operator.

 

So in all cases the RIO has to know what closure rate interval (PD) or range (P) is set and that becomes the upper and lower limit of the DDD.

 

So if in pulse with the range set to 20 nm the marks along the left side represent 0, 5, 10, 15 and 20 nm, with 0 and 20 being the bottom and top of the screen. If set to 100nm range those same marks are 0, 25, 50, 75 and 100.

 

If in PD the Vc switch sets the interval. As an example, in the NORM position the scale is from 200 opening to 1000 knots closing. That means that those same marks on the left now represent 200 knots opening, 100 knots closing, 400 knots closing, 700 knots closing and 1000 knots closing with 200 knots opening and 1000 knots closing being the bottom and top of the screen respectively.

 

As you can see the marks along those vertical lines mean different things depending on mode and settings which the RIO has to keep tabs of manually. You can view those markings as helping the RIO make out which part of the screen the target is in which can the be used to manually calculate the value. The marks on the left marking quarters of the screen, the two middle one fifths and the right one sixths.

 

Hope this helps!

Edited November 10, 2019 by Naquaii

[bonesvf103]

Hi againg!

Hope this helps!

 

 

Yes it does, thank you!

 

 

So for the synthetic range marker on the left in PD-STT, that is to just give you a guesstimate idea as to range since really the DDD is really telling you the closure?

 

 

v6,

boNes

[Naquaii]

Yes it does, thank you!

 

 

So for the synthetic range marker on the left in PD-STT, that is to just give you a guesstimate idea as to range since really the DDD is really telling you the closure?

 

 

v6,

boNes

 

It is accurate, it uses fm-ranging to calculate the range similar to how RWS and TWS does it.

But it is hard to accurately read it on the DDD so for exact numbers I'd advise you to use the TID and just use the DDD for rough numbers.

[bonesvf103]

It is accurate, it uses fm-ranging to calculate the range similar to how RWS and TWS does it.

But it is hard to accurately read it on the DDD so for exact numbers I'd advise you to use the TID and just use the DDD for rough numbers.

 

 

Oh, duh, that's right...it's locked up already.

 

 

On another note, you were saying VSL and PAL will keep scanning until they find a target. But if they don't find a target, will the scan just go back to the last mode (ie, TWS, RWS, etc?)

 

 

v6,

boNes

[Naquaii]

Nope, VSL and PAL will continue until it finds a target or it's cancelled, so if you just let it be it'll run continuously.

 

When cancelled all transitional modes and STT locks will revert to basic Pulse Search or Pulse-Doppler Search. RWS or TWS has to be reselected manually.

[Home Fries]

So how do you figure target aspect from this display? Go to ground stab and use those absolute vectors?

Exactly!

[bonesvf103]

Nope, VSL and PAL will continue until it finds a target or it's cancelled, so if you just let it be it'll run continuously.

 

When cancelled all transitional modes and STT locks will revert to basic Pulse Search or Pulse-Doppler Search. RWS or TWS has to be reselected manually.

 

 

How do you cancel it? Tap PLM since PLM only works as long as the button is depressed then goes back to a basic search mode?

 

 

v6,

boNes

[Naquaii]

As a pilot that’s usually how I do it yes. The RIO can just go half-action on the hcu and release, if full-action is never pressed it returns to basic search.

[TLTeo]

If you're flying with Jester, does he know to revert to RWS/TWS after PLM/VSL/PAL searches are cancelled, or does one need to tell him?

[Naquaii]

He should return automatically once the transitional mode is turned off.

[bonesvf103]

Just to be clear. Say you are in TWS. You have the knobs set to 20 deg and 4 bar. Then you change the bar knob to 8.

 

 

Since you are in TWS, the radar will automatically set itself to 40 deg and 2 bar search then?

 

 

v6,

boNes

[draconus]

http://www.heatblur.se/F-14Manual/general.html#track-while-scan-tws

When entering TWS the computer automatically selects the ±20° 4 bar scan disregarding the RIO set scan volumes unless those are set to ±40° 2 bars in which case that is used instead.

[bonesvf103]

http://www.heatblur.se/F-14Manual/general.html#track-while-scan-tws

 

 

Thanks, but that is when entering TWS. I'm asking about of you are already in TWS and then you make the change. So then the radar will stay in 20/4? If I'm already in TWS, then I change the knob to 40/2, then it will go to 40/2?

 

 

v6,

boNes