Is LINK-16 cross platform ?

[max22]

Can F/A-18C Hornet share data over the LINK-16 protocol to an F-16C or make it any module to any module ?

[Emmy]

Vipers and Hornets should, I think, be able to “talk.”

 

For A-10Cs to play, I believe you need a gateway asset such as an AWACS.

 

Right now, human-flown Hogs can’t see human-flown Hornets but Hogs can see AI Eagles and Vipers (and associated SPIs) on their TADs. Here’s hoping that eventually, we can all (at least) see each other!

[Kid18120]

Vipers and Hornets should, I think, be able to “talk.”

 

For A-10Cs to play, I believe you need a gateway asset such as an AWACS.

 

Right now, human-flown Hogs can’t see human-flown Hornets but Hogs can see AI Eagles and Vipers (and associated SPIs) on their TADs. Here’s hoping that eventually, we can all (at least) see each other!

 

I'd be more than happy to have the gateway system simulated in a simple way, such as something like:

 

- is there a gateway-enabled asset in the mission?

---> No -> No D/L cross-comm

---> Yes -> D/L cross-comm (just positioning and just maybe SPI sharing)

 

Without the need of distance / reach / range and what not simulated.:joystick:

[evilnate]

I can see F-16s on SA page while flying F/A-18C.

[Harlikwin]

Can F/A-18C Hornet share data over the LINK-16 protocol to an F-16C or make it any module to any module ?

 

Simple answer: yes of course

 

Complicated answer: Its complicated yo...

[Home Fries]

Link 16 is compatible across all Link 16 platforms, but think of it like TCP/IP. You put a computer on a network, it needs an IP, connects with a router, and then through the router can share with other PCs on that network.

 

Datalink is similar. Each unit needs its own unique ID, as well as the ID of the net control unit (the "router"). Then the units need to be on the same radio frequency and share the same crypto. But having all of this, a Link 16 capable unit can join a Link 16 network.

 

Where it gets really complicated is when you have all the other Datalink protocols out there, which differ due to age and function. AFAIK, Link 4 is only used with the Tomcat, and is a legacy link that requires the "gateway", or a multi-link capable platform like the Hawkeye, to receive data indirectly from Link 16 platforms. Then there is Link 11, which is more suited for a surface and subsurface picture but still has aircraft in it...

[M1Combat]

Well... replace router with switch in your example and you're closer :). By definition routers route things to "other" networks :).

[Worrazen]

Let's hope DCS: A-10C gets updated with a newer variant/upgrade suite, but IDK about Link-16 or the HMCS (even tho F-18 has it?) but the stuff in between, so we could play the current variant and let's say 2013 level variant, that would be awesome.

 

Whatever A-10C gets, it's day 1 purchase from me!

Edited November 26, 2019 by Worrazen

[Emmy]

Just tested this last night...

 

With an E-3 up I launched a gaggle of AI aircraft and with me in an A-10C, on my TAD I could see:

- E3

- A-10C

- F-16 Block 50

- F-15C

- F/A-18 Block 20*

 

I could not see:

- F-14

- AV8B

 

(*Interesting because you can’t see human-flown Hornets. It will be interesting to see if Hogs can see human-flown Vipers after this next big OB update)

[Harlikwin]

Just tested this last night...

 

 

I could not see:

- F-14

- AV8B

 

Well neither are link16 compatible. The F14 in theory should be able to talk to an E2C on link4 which could re-transmit its datalink to other aircraft and maybe vice-versa?

 

The AV8B has no datalink at present. And only in 2018/2019 did it start to receive a link16 upgrade. And we have an early 2000's franken harrier of some sort but word is it might get some sort of datalink, but I'm gonna guess its A/G.

 

Did the human flown hornets have the D/L turned on/setup right?

[Emmy]

Well neither are link16 compatible. The F14 in theory should be able to talk to an E2C on link4 which could re-transmit its datalink to other aircraft and maybe vice-versa?

 

The AV8B has no datalink at present. And only in 2018/2019 did it start to receive a link16 upgrade. And we have an early 2000's franken harrier of some sort but word is it might get some sort of datalink, but I'm gonna guess its A/G.

 

Did the human flown hornets have the D/L turned on/setup right?

 

I’m sure they did.

[Fri13]

What version of the F-15C AI is? AFAIK the our F-15C is too old to have Link-16, as very few F-15C used the JTIDS that got cancelled in our models.

[Kang]

Our version of the F-15C, most importantly, is FC3 and thus has no simulation of any particular datalink system; a 'default share it all FC3 datalink' at best and I would advise against such.

Most of the debate in this thread goes around how this should work in the actual planes. All fair and good. The question, though, is: does it work in DCS?

[Fri13]

Our version of the F-15C, most importantly, is FC3 and thus has no simulation of any particular datalink system; a 'default share it all FC3 datalink' at best and I would advise against such.

Most of the debate in this thread goes around how this should work in the actual planes. All fair and good. The question, though, is: does it work in DCS?

 

Yes, but if our F-15C should be incapable to have any datalink in it, it does raise question that why it is anyways after all visible in any Link-16 capable aircrafts (or A-10C etc)?

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2302413&postcount=13

 

As it is like if MiG-21Bis would suddenly become visible for a A-10C TAD....

 

No, question is not about FC3 vs others, it is simply that "Should this aircraft be a participant in the datalink network?".

 

"The F-15E was to receive a less sophisticated unit derived from MIDS-LVT, designated the "Fighter Data Link (FDL or 'Fiddle')", but this was originally a lower priority effort. However, in October 2001, with the need to support the US intervention in Afghanistan, the F-15E jumped to the top of the priority queue. Afghanistan put heavy demands on strike elements while air superiority was barely an issue. The entire Strike Eagle fleet was equipped with FDL in about a year, with the F-15C/D LVT installation lagging well behind. The F-15 community regards the datalink as very valuable, but not necessarily to be used to justify attacks without corroboration from some other source."

 

So, if our F-15C we have in DCS (FC3 or not) shouldn't have any kind datalink capability (or at least Link-16), then why is it shown with the others? As it should be excluded from all those other aircrafts datalink screens, like MiG-21Bis would be excluded. As F-15C shouldn't be visible to A-10C TAD, be human or AI regardless.

 

As if only Link-16 compatible aircrafts should be participant in that network, then so be it.

 

But hopefully this gets resolved by the ED in the future, as they are working with the communications now with their new VoIP system, as well they should make it clear that what networks there are, and make clear specification maps for mission designers that what aircrafts and systems can communicate with each others.

 

As only thing that really is "universally compatible" is a normal VHF/UHV radio by its design and frequencies. So at least what you can do is to get a radio communication happen between the units that knows how to configure the radio.

[Harlikwin]

Well there are a few things here.

 

If the F15 is showing up it could just be thats IDed by the awacs, same for a mig21. But you shouldnt be able to pull sensor data from the F15 or mig21. But if tou are on the link, you see what Awacs sees plus whatever contacts are shared by link capable units.

 

I.e. you could see an f15 IDed by awacs OR an F18 or both. But if he had a bandit on his scope you shouldnt see it unless it was seen by awacs or an f18/16.

Edited December 1, 2019 by Harlikwin

[Emmy]

And yet I’ve seen F-15 SPIs (and the purple lines projecting to them) on an A-10C TAD...

[Harlikwin]

And yet I’ve seen F-15 SPIs (and the purple lines projecting to them) on an A-10C TAD...

 

That seems wrong then. Unless the 15c has some sort of datalink.

[Fri13]

Well there are a few things here.

 

If the F15 is showing up it could just be thats IDed by the awacs, same for a mig21. But you shouldnt be able to pull sensor data from the F15 or mig21. But if tou are on the link, you see what Awacs sees plus whatever contacts are shared by link capable units.

 

I.e. you could see an f15 IDed by awacs OR an F18 or both. But if he had a bandit on his scope you shouldnt see it unless it was seen by awacs or an f18/16.

 

If the AWACS or something else detects F-15C and identifies it as such, and then that is capable transmit it to Link-16 network, then all Link-16 participants would see it. But not by F-15C identifying itself and informing its own location to others.

 

So of course AWACS would perform a query over radio of possible friendlies using specific heading and altitude etc, and if they get confirmation it is friendly, to announce it as such to others over Link-16.

[Emmy]

Some clarification from ED on AWACS’ actual data capability would be nice.

[Harlikwin]

If the AWACS or something else detects F-15C and identifies it as such, and then that is capable transmit it to Link-16 network, then all Link-16 participants would see it. But not by F-15C identifying itself and informing its own location to others.

 

So of course AWACS would perform a query over radio of possible friendlies using specific heading and altitude etc, and if they get confirmation it is friendly, to announce it as such to others over Link-16.

 

Yup. Thats what i said. Though what the poster with the a10 seeing the f15 contacts seems odd unless that specific f15 does have datalink. I.e. AI f15 has datalink and player f15 does not.

[Emmy]

Yup. Thats what i said. Though what the poster with the a10 seeing the f15 contacts seems odd unless that specific f15 does have datalink. I.e. AI f15 has datalink and player f15 does not.

 

Same as the Hornet. AI Hornets show up on the TAD. Human-flown do not.

[Harlikwin]

Some clarification from ED on AWACS’ actual data capability would be nice.

 

AWACS is "magic" :music_whistling:

 

Honestly though Awacs can be thought of as the critical collection and distribution node for all aircraft. Even ones with non compliant datalinks. I.e. your viper cant talk to the f14, but you can both talk to awacs, and awacs "translates" for you. Same for ships etc. You can find way more than you want to know using gazoogle.

 

Modern data links dont have this common point of failure.

[Emmy]

AWACS is "magic" :music_whistling:

 

Honestly though Awacs can be thought of as the critical collection and distribution node for all aircraft. Even ones with non compliant datalinks. I.e. your viper cant talk to the f14, but you can both talk to awacs, and awacs "translates" for you. Same for ships etc.

 

I understand the concept of “Gateway Asset” but some official word on what’s actually coded would be nice.

 

What should we actually see across a DL both with and without an AWACS and who can actually link to who natively?

[Harlikwin]

I understand the concept of “Gateway Asset” but some official word on what’s actually coded would be nice.

 

What should we actually see across a DL both with and without an AWACS and who can actually link to who natively?

 

A nice marix graphic would be nice from ED.

[Emmy]

A nice marix graphic would be nice from ED.

 

Yes!