Rudders

[therion_prime]

I wouldn't consider hall sensors expensive: LINK

[Nordic]

I wouldn't consider hall sensors expensive: LINK

 

Like i said before: Those self made setups don't guarantee a linear output. Of course it would be nice if they do it. Rotational hall sensors are very expensive though for a reason.

 

It's your choice :).

[therion_prime]

Like i said before: Those self made setups don't guarantee a linear output. Of course it would be nice if they do it. Rotational hall sensors are very expensive though for a reason.

 

It's your choice :).

 

Of course it's nice to have some alternatives.

 

btw. Nordic, your cockpit looks exceptionally nice! :thumbup:

Is everything in your cockpit DIY?

 

And - on topic - can you provide some closeup shots of your pedals?

Are those hydraulic shock absorbers on your pedals? What type?

[TorwaK]

My preference is CH over Saitek pedals because I'd rather have the smoothness and finess of control over comfort (and you only really notice the CH pedals after 1.5-2 hours flying).

 

I agree.

[Joe]

unfortunately not all driving Wheel Pedals work good for flying.

 

Used the Pedals from my old Momo Racing wheel for some time and it worked not bad in LOFC, but since I've upgraded to a Logitech G25 this does not work properly.

The brake Pedal needs much more force to Input than the right Pedal and that is not comfortable for flying:)

Just use the throttle pedal and the clutch pedal.

[l.e.x]

Thank you for the Tip Joe, but the Throttle and the Clutch use seperate Axis, AFAIK you can't assign left and right Rudder input on seperate Axis in LOFC, or am i wrong?

 

Greetz

[Triggerhappy69]

Rudder Pedals and Hall Effect Sencors

 

I swear to rudder pedals that are at least 50cm wide.. Anything less just makes my feet go tired and cramp up..!

 

[ATTACH]145[/ATTACH]

This setup is buildt in an evening with parts from any hardware store.

I have since the picture added hall effect sencor for the rudder pedals (and my Cougar) and as far as being exact and linear its all a question on how you move the sencor in it's magnetic field. The SS495A sencors will output 0v-2,5v-5v if you let the field pass through it length wise..! (see picture of Cougar further down). And if you opt to go for a sencor with high resolution like the SS-495A1 sencor it's as precise as the mechanics will allow it to...

 

[ATTACH]146[/ATTACH]

See.... It's all made from parts that you find anywhere..

 

 

[ATTACH]147[/ATTACH]

Here's my Cougar with the Hall effect sencors and magnets installed.. This HOTAS is excellent for modd's like this. I can at any time just remove the hall-effect sencors and magnets and install the potensiometers again in 10 minutes..

 

 

 

Ps.. Nordic..! That has got to be one of the sweetest and coolest all-round setups I have seen.. Question for you though.. Where did you find gas dampeners without springs in them? I have been looking all over for those to put in my KA-50 Pit's pedals..?

[Joe]

Thank you for the Tip Joe, but the Throttle and the Clutch use seperate Axis, AFAIK you can't assign left and right Rudder input on seperate Axis in LOFC, or am i wrong?

 

Greetz

Ah, good point. I'm so accustomed to the thinking "split axes = good, shared axis = bad" from racing sims that I forgot that rudder input should be on a shared axis.

 

I don't know if you can assign the right and left rudders in FC to independent axes. I have old CH gameport rudders connected to my Cougar, and I always use them in flight sims, so I've never tried to assign split axes.

[G3]

triggerhappy69: wicked stick mod.

love the extended shaft, i want to do the same to my ch combatstick ready for bs.

 

and the hall sensors, trouble free, spike free, o maintenance, i love it :thumbup:

[Amuro]

Wow, that's a nice mod.

[Bucic]

Here's my Cougar with the Hall effect sencors and magnets installed.. This HOTAS is excellent for modd's like this. I can at any time just remove the hall-effect sencors and magnets and install the potensiometers again in 10 minutes..

 

How did you manage to adapt hall effect sensor signal to a pot signal??

 

Do you get 100% linear characteristic? Have you measured it?

[Triggerhappy69]

How did you manage to adapt hall effect sensor signal to a pot signal??

 

Do you get 100% linear characteristic? Have you measured it?

 

 

Adapting it to my pot signal was actually a matter of reading.. I know..! But my sqaudmates can vouch for me when I say that I had everything buildt and monuted in my Cougar for ages. But the damn thing wouldn't work..!

 

And the I read this dokument:

[ATTACH]150[/ATTACH]

 

It became quite clear to me that my Cougar wouldn't read the sencor as a left-center-right (0v-2,5v-5v) motion when i set it up like this (not my picture.. got it from a russian forum that ROCKS when it comes to modding Cougars)

 

It read it as a left-center-left motion (5v-2,5v-5v)..

[ATTACH]155[/ATTACH]

With the magnetic field running through the hall effect sencor at a perpendicular angle. The volt range went from 5v to 0v and back to 5v again.. But after just turning it 90 degrees (and changing from SS495 sencors to SS495A1 that have higher resoluton), I finally could make it read a curve that was 0v-2,5v-5v.

 

 

LINEARITY ISSUES:

[ATTACH]151[/ATTACH]

The beauty of hall effect sencors (other than the fact that they're dirt cheap) is that you can have almost whatever curve you want just by changing the way the magnetic field flows through the sencor. Or by simply using other types of magnets.. (ring magnets with N-S-N-S 90 degrees to eachother on the ring).

..Or exponential curves by using a strong magnet on one side and a weaker on on the other side (like the first curve on picture above only exchange one of the magnets for a stronger one)

..Or even wavelike curver by letting the sencor be moved linear over a band of magnets glued with alternating N-S-N-S-N-S next to eachother.. Longer and higher waves can be achieved by gluing magnets in N-N-S-S-N-N-S-S-N-N pattern..

[ATTACH]153[/ATTACH]

 

There's no simple answer to anything these days.. An I guess I got a little carried away here:music_whistling:..

 

Honeywell's own specs for the SS490 Series are self explanatory.. So the answer to linearity is HELL YES.. They can output a linear signal (at least over the range and angle of movement your joystick has)...!

[ATTACH]152[/ATTACH]

 

... Now did I get a 100% linear output in the setup I chose for my Cougar..???

 

- The Cougar has a range of about 30 degrees of movement arround the center. So I would say that the "feel" I get after modding it to hall effect certainly is A LOT MORE PRECISE AND LINEAR that any potmeter I have tried...

- Mathematicly the curve should not be 100% linear though it's whole range. But since I am rotating the fields flux through the sencors center and only using 30% of it's range it's well within the "flat area" of the curve as seen above...

- Also I always fly with 2-3% centerpoint trim becuase the cougar stinks at centering precise. And even more so with the stick-extention.! And I also use a little exponetial in my HOTAS Setup Curve.

 

So (damn I gotta stop going on and on and answer the man) I guess my answer would be that No, I haven't bothered doing real presice and consequent testing thaI can produce for you here.. But I know a LOT of others have done so, and I just took theyr word for it..!:thumbup:

[therion_prime]

How did you manage to adapt hall effect sensor signal to a pot signal??

 

Do you get 100% linear characteristic? Have you measured it?

 

In most cases one can simply exchange the pot with a hallsensor without the need of additional electronics.

Very few joysticks need to have a resistor removed, exchanged or added to get the desired 5 Volts. But that is all.

 

Nice setup, Trigger :thumbup:

[Bucic]

Triggerhappy69, all I'm thinking right know is... WOOOOOW! Up to this moment I thought potentiometer cannot be replaced even by most of the hall effect based rotary sensors not mentioning hall sensor + simple magnet!

 

I don't have time to go through this right now but I''l check it out later. For now what I can only do is to give you a rep boost :thumbup:

[Triggerhappy69]

In most cases one can simply exchange the pot with a hallsensor without the need of additional electronics.

Very few joysticks need to have a resistor removed, exchanged or added to get the desired 5 Volts. But that is all.

 

Nice setup, Trigger :thumbup:

 

 

So true , so true mate..!

 

Allthough the Cougar Throttle DOES have to have a resistor added as shown in picture:

[ATTACH]156[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

Also check out this thread to get a complete intro on how to mod your cougar to hall effect sencors..

 

http://www.checksix-forums.com/showthread.phpt=132677&highlight=hall+cougar

 

Excellent work by "NN Apache"...!:thumbup:

[Triggerhappy69]

Triggerhappy69, all I'm thinking right know is... WOOOOOW! Up to this moment I thought potentiometer cannot be replaced even by most of the hall effect based rotary sensors not mentioning hall sensor + simple magnet!

 

I don't have time to go through this right now but I''l check it out later. For now what I can only do is to give you a rep boost :thumbup:

 

 

Thanx a lot mate.. Just glad to help fellow simmers..:smilewink:

 

Let me know if you need more info or pics.. Sharing info is the only way to improve..!

[therion_prime]

Also check out this thread to get a complete intro on how to mod your cougar to hall effect sencors..

 

http://www.checksix-forums.com/showthread.phpt=132677&highlight=hall+cougar

 

Excellent work by "NN Apache"...!:thumbup:

 

You forgot a "?" in the link: ;)

This one works:

 

http://www.checksix-forums.com/showthread.php?t=132677&highlight=hall+cougar

[therion_prime]

are helicopter pedals self centering or not? :music_whistling:

[Sundowner.pl]

Some are, some not. For helo-sim purposes its better not to have a centering springs.

[leafer]

Most excellent. Keep it coming. :)

 

My question is, would it be easier to use rotary type hall sensors?

[Triggerhappy69]

Most excellent. Keep it coming. :)

 

My question is, would it be easier to use rotary type hall sensors?

 

 

Yes most definately.. And no.. Absolutely not..!:cry:

 

Yes, because if you find one that fits in the same slot as the original Potmeters it's a "plug-and-play" job to mod your joystick.

 

No, because I have a hard time believing that you actually will find this Rotary Hall Effect Sencor (RHES for short). Important things to remember when checking this is how many degrees of travel the RHES is buildt to use. The ones I came across would need some kind og "pushrod and bellcrank" sollution and have a purpose buildt attaching made to fit it into the joystick.

[ATTACH]157[/ATTACH]

 

If only I could find out what type sencors "Cubpilot" uses for hes mod.. They seem to be an easy fix! Pricy, but well worth it I guess.!

http://www.cubpilotshangar.net/

 

 

The "DIY" sollution with a SS490 Series style sencor only problem is that it takes up so LITTLE space that it might seem a bit fiddly to work with.

 

Also... Compare the price between the two sollutions.. We're talking 15$ US for the DIY mod complete with all parts, and 115$ for just the RHES (at least here in Norway)..

 

Links to Hall Effect "plug and play" mods:

http://www.vkb-flightsimcontrols.com/produkt/mars.php?PHPSESSID=13041abf378030ea875aac386aeca778

http://www.cubpilotshangar.net/

http://www.checksix-forums.com/showthread.php?t=91587

 

Stick Extension mod for Cougar (look halfways down the page):

http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=74728&highlight=extention

[leafer]

How about this one? 30 usd.

 

http://www.potentiometers.com/HRS100.cfm?session_num=2007110911580343

 

Electrical Angle 90° ±2° (standard)

180° ±2°

Electrical Output Range 5% - 95% of applied Vdd (standard)

Linearity ±2% (less than 1% is typical)

Output Current 2 ma max. (source or sink)

Over Voltage Protection 18 VDC max.

Reverse Voltage

Protection -14.5 VDC max.

Supply Voltage 5 VDC ±10%

Supply Current 5 ma. Typical

 

Mechanical Angle 90° ±2°(standard)

180° ±2°

Rotational Torque 2.0 in. oz. max at 25° with shaft seal

Stop Torque 5 inch pounds

Push Out 20 pounds min.

Pull Out 10 pounds min.

Rotational Life 50,000,000 cycles min.

 

And what did you mean a plug-n-play job?

[Yellonet]

How about this one? 30 usd.

 

http://www.potentiometers.com/HRS100.cfm?session_num=2007110911580343

 

Electrical Angle 90° ±2° (standard)

180° ±2°

Electrical Output Range 5% - 95% of applied Vdd (standard)

Linearity ±2% (less than 1% is typical)

Output Current 2 ma max. (source or sink)

Over Voltage Protection 18 VDC max.

Reverse Voltage

Protection -14.5 VDC max.

Supply Voltage 5 VDC ±10%

Supply Current 5 ma. Typical

 

Mechanical Angle 90° ±2°(standard)

180° ±2°

Rotational Torque 2.0 in. oz. max at 25° with shaft seal

Stop Torque 5 inch pounds

Push Out 20 pounds min.

Pull Out 10 pounds min.

Rotational Life 50,000,000 cycles min.

 

And what did you mean a plug-n-play job?

Pretty much takes away the prime advantages of a hall sensor, at least for me, namely the non mechanical nature that makes it last virtually for ever.

[leafer]

I'm not sure I follow you. It has a rotational life of 50,000,000 cycles.

[Triggerhappy69]

How about this one? 30 usd.

 

http://www.potentiometers.com/HRS100.cfm?session_num=2007110911580343

 

Electrical Angle 90° ±2° (standard)

180° ±2°

Electrical Output Range 5% - 95% of applied Vdd (standard)

Linearity ±2% (less than 1% is typical)

Output Current 2 ma max. (source or sink)

Over Voltage Protection 18 VDC max.

Reverse Voltage

Protection -14.5 VDC max.

Supply Voltage 5 VDC ±10%

Supply Current 5 ma. Typical

 

Mechanical Angle 90° ±2°(standard)

180° ±2°

Rotational Torque 2.0 in. oz. max at 25° with shaft seal

Stop Torque 5 inch pounds

Push Out 20 pounds min.

Pull Out 10 pounds min.

Rotational Life 50,000,000 cycles min.

 

And what did you mean a plug-n-play job?

 

 

Yup..! looks familiar.. I probably would have tried them if I could find them over here. As far as the advantages compared to using "DIY" sencors I really can't say for sure.. not having tried it I mean..!

 

But if the resolution and physical size is adequate for your joystick I would at least try one out and see if it works.. It would take away all the "damn I must find a way to attach the bloody magnets without them slamming together all the time" problems..

 

By plug-n-play I mean Hall effect sencors that wouldn't require aditional mounting-brackets to be made, and pushrods and/or bellcrank being fittet.. Just remove the potmeters and install the sencors.. (sigh.. Wouldn't that be nice.. and kinda' boring to.. LMAO):cry: