Head camera vibration and movements - Question -

[urze]

Please look at 2:34 of the EDGE video http://www.virtual-jabog32.de/index.php?section=downloads&subcat=28&file=766 . It describes very well how thinks will look in BlackShark when you will not move your head with your Head movement tracker (FreeTrack or Naturalpoint). I didn't talked to GA but I'm very certain that he didn't moved his head much while pulling to the Left.:smilewink:

[Legolasindar]

I may have misunderstood him because of my limited knowledge of English, but in the video is using track-ir.

[Glowing_Amraam]

I didn't talked to GA but I'm very certain that he didn't moved his head much while pulling to the Left.:smilewink:

 

You're right :)

[Weta43]

Urze is right I think & beat me to it. Your body damps most vibrations & your mind removes the rest - like any good video camera.

How much 'vibration' is there in your vision when you run ? essentially none - even though you're subject to quite harsh acceleration in a variety of axis (try carrying a glass of water & running :-)

I've only ever been up in a helicopter a couple of times, but I do remember the dials weren't dancing in front of my vision. Unless you've lost a bit of a rotor, your brain should remove all shaking from your vision, so adding camera shake makes the whole thing less realistic & immersive, not more.

[MBot]

Camera shaking is important in my opinion, if done right. I agree that the human eye and brain compensate for most vibrations and shaking (if not too violate), so camera shaking should NOT be about the viewpoint pitching up/down and yawing left/right. Your brain is perfectly able to concentrate and giving you a stable view. Still your head is affected and moved by various forces, therefore it should move up/down/left/right (move, not turn).

The effect this creates is that your cockpit will move/shake/vibrate around in your view, as it is close to eye (moving your POV by 5cm will change the angle at which you see an object 50cm away). The landscape on the other hand will remain rock solid, changing your POV by 5cm will hardly change the angle at which you see an object 500m away. Try it out yourselfe right now and look out of your window. Bump your head up and down and you will notice that the window framing will move around quite much while the landscape outside remains where it is.

 

Il-2 has done this very well. While your view remains solid, the cockpit shakes and moves around under g-forces (at least that is the impression to the player). This dynamic view is in my opinion one of the major reasons that Il-2 has that fantastic feeling of flying.

[Weta43]

But if you look at the speedo on a bumpy road - it doesn't shake ...

[MBot]

When I drive it does...

[VMFA117_Poko]

Weta43! I know what You mean. These movements in game should be done so sligthly to not even easy notice them. But they SHOULD be there - as an option ofcourse - like in rFactor racing sim where you can set a amount of g-force movements and even angle of "look to turn apex". I don't drive with those settings on 100% 'cuz it's harder than in real. I set small values.

[Weta43]

I know what you mean - I just can't see how to simulate it without making the whole clickable cockpit impossible to use.

 

Maybe the proportion of the screen taken up by things inside the cockpit could be monitored & as that % goes up, the amount of jiggle inside goes down & that outside goes up (if you're looking out the window things inside move, if you're concentrating on the gauges, the outside world shakes)

 

- so it's always the peripheral view that shakes ...

[Yeniceri]

Head bang on a straight flight..

if you have Track IR or Freetrack, try it...

I need a mod for it :)

[VMFA117_Poko]

(...)if you're concentrating on the gauges, the outside world shakes

Because of outside elements will farther from your eye than gauges it should rather stop shaking at all (cockpit and world) when concentrating in cockpit. Maybe loosing acuity - blur of outside world would be more appropriate then. Despite Your worries think still about keyboard. The most important switches needed in combat which are not placed on Your stick and collective should be easy reachable on Your keyboard as an alternative. Feeling of g-forces acting on helo are very important since You won't feel it in other way than seeing those movements. I know that problem in FSX when I reach a switch with arrow while in turning I loose it because of g-force. Maybe arrow should move with g-force when not moving a mouse at all... Or maybe arrow should dock, stick, glue to switch when pointing on it...

[nemises]

I know what you mean - I just can't see how to simulate it without making the whole clickable cockpit impossible to use.

 

...

 

What if the cursor moved relative to the 3d cockpit , rather than in the absolute "overlay plane" of normal mouse movement?...that way, if the cockpit moved (in simulation of your head moving) , the cursor would also move, relative to your eyes (but not move relative to the cockpit)..

 

of course, that would probably suck.

[Weta43]

Because of outside elements will farther from your eye than gauges it should rather stop shaking at all (cockpit and world) when concentrating in cockpit.

 

If your eyes are tracking the gross movements of a gauge, which is moving with the airframe relative to the outside world, then your eyes are moving relative to the outside world too - no matter how far away that part of the world (or universe in the case of stars) is. The outside world is not moving, but your eyes 'are', so the outside world (the view through the windscreen) will appear to move relative to the gauges inside the cockpit, relative to the window frames etc (in much the same way as it seems to rush past the window when you shift your focus to something inside your vehicle, but in random directions).

[CAT_101st]

Ok you guys are giving me a head ache :huh:

[Weta43]

It's not us - it's the vibrations you're seeing through the window.

[The_GOZR]

All of these are optional and can be turned on/off in-game while flying.

 

I really hope that ED or DCS get all those setting host controllable for online fights and also envision more of Sim battles with a focus on realism .

 

Keep closer to an il2 style than an FSX open mentality. This will bring some serious simmers and pilots that want equality on realism with out any advantages of some sort on dark tweaks . All controlled by Host would be great.