Su-25T vs ground targets

[hreich]

Ok..I like flying Su-25T, but the thing flies like truck. I mean, when I am attacking ground targets in a valley, with high mountains around target, what is the simpliest precedure to destroy 10+ targets?

I mean i attack target or two per pass, then I have to circle around target, extend, wait for laser to cool down, i am climbing like a brik, slow speed, i make a turn , loose altitude make another attack, kill one-two targets, than its all over again....What is yours procedure

[159th_Viper]

Provided your Engagement Flight Corridor has beed sanitized of Air defences, the most effective ordinance for multiple target kills in one pass would be RBK-250's.

 

Flown right, the T-Frog behaves like a Angry Hornet as opposed to a Brick

[SoaringEagle74]

Ok..I like flying Su-25T, but the thing flies like truck. I mean, when I am attacking ground targets in a valley, with high mountains around target, what is the simpliest precedure to destroy 10+ targets?

I mean i attack target or two per pass, then I have to circle around target, extend, wait for laser to cool down, i am climbing like a brik, slow speed, i make a turn , loose altitude make another attack, kill one-two targets, than its all over again....What is yours procedure

 

Hreich,

 

Despite what some people say I think the su-25t is one of hardest planes to fly. It requires excellent flying skills to begin with and some time to get used to its peculiraties. It is like flying a truck, especially when your used to flying high performance sports sedans such as a su-27 or su-33.

 

My suggestion to you is learn to fly an a-10 or su-25 first so you can grab the basics of flying first then learn the t-frog. Off course, this is just my opinion.

 

 

159thViper,

 

Welcome back. I have been looking for that graphics configuration file you told me to edit but I can't find it. No worries though because I am going to strip 1.12 and go to 1.11 where hopefully the tuturials will work correctly. I see no sense in trying to fly online with ace settings when I haven't even learned the theory properly and my computer routinely under performs in every department. Thanks for your help though. I can appreciate it!

[S77th-konkussion]

Weight's a bitch ain't it? Despite it's all around badazz appearance with every conceivable weapon loaded on every sortie- try to limit your payload to what you need to accomplish the mission.

 

This could- at times- include the fuel load, too. Use your head! Potential fuel loss from damage, etc etc.

[Kuky]

You can't make many ground kills with Su-25 in one pass... unless you're attacking a coloumn that has no air defences, in which case you'd wanna use clusters. If there are 1-2 AAA or IR's around that no problem either, as long as you know where they are... you's want to use Kh-25ML's to take them out from longer range (turn laser on at about 20km from target and launch overide). That would be 2 kills before you're even very close to target then when you get closer you could even fire few Vikhrs and get 2 more kills (just before laser overheats) then finish off the run with clusters.

 

This way you can get 10 targets in one go easy but again like I said, it's provided you are attacking lightly defended enemy coloumn. Spread out targets it's another story... there your best bet is have someone do SEAD from higher altitude... clear spave from enemy SAM's then you can get in and also attack target's single or pairs from higher altitude and keep safe from IR SAM's. Once you're confident all air defences are out you can get low and start working bombs, rockets and guns... this does take time though... if you want many kills and have the time to loiter. If not, I'd limit doing 1 pass over targets only and use Kh-25ML's for stand off range firing then 2x Kh-29T and you can get 6 targets in that 1 pass and stay fairly safe and bug out.

[159th_Viper]

You can't make many ground kills with Su-25 in one pass... unless you're attacking a coloumn that has no air defences, in which case you'd wanna use clusters. If there are 1-2 AAA or IR's around that no problem either, as long as you know where they are... you's want to use Kh-25ML's to take them out from longer range (turn laser on at about 20km from target and launch overide). That would be 2 kills before you're even very close to target then when you get closer you could even fire few Vikhrs and get 2 more kills (just before laser overheats) then finish off the run with clusters.

 

This way you can get 10 targets in one go easy but again like I said, it's provided you are attacking lightly defended enemy coloumn. Spread out targets it's another story... there your best bet is have someone do SEAD from higher altitude... clear spave from enemy SAM's then you can get in and also attack target's single or pairs from higher altitude and keep safe from IR SAM's. Once you're confident all air defences are out you can get low and start working bombs, rockets and guns... this does take time though... if you want many kills and have the time to loiter. If not, I'd limit doing 1 pass over targets only and use Kh-25ML's for stand off range firing then 2x Kh-29T and you can get 6 targets in that 1 pass and stay fairly safe and bug out.

 

Sage Advice - you'd do good by paying heed :)

 

Better to have One Kill and RTB safely than Multiple Kills and get Splashed.......

[159th_Viper]

Thanks for your help though. I can appreciate it!

 

:)

[Blakk]

don't think that in real environment anyone is even hoping to get 10 targets in one move.

in most cases it's hit and run tacticts, where one or two targets are predefined, so the choise of weapon is set on these targets

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

One need to spend some time and learn all auto-pilot modes with Su-25T. Then, all of a sudden it is not that difficult to fly the best airppalne in this game, the Su-25T!

[Kuky]

don't think that in real environment anyone is even hoping to get 10 targets in one move.

in most cases it's hit and run tacticts, where one or two targets are predefined, so the choise of weapon is set on these targets

 

pretty much sums it up :thumbup:

[andyfoot]

It does handle like a brick when heavily loaded, so I take out the Air Defence Systems first; if I have the "Heavy" weapons like the Kh-25ML or Kh-29T (which is also fire and forget, so you can concentrate on your next target after you fire it without having to stay lased on a current target) I try to use them first (unless you need them for a bridge or building). Once they've left the rails, try to use up your bombs and then you're left with just the Vikhr (for example), and you are a lot more manouverable (keep an eye on your angle of attack indicator, if you go over the limit around 20-25 degrees you start to stall/depart flight envelope, so ease off on your joystick back-pressure. You can also use rudder to keep the ball in the centre so you aren't slipping so much - more efficient use of your control surfaces). This also improves your fuel consumption so you have more loiter time and can make more passes. If you use all your Vikhr's, eject the empty magazine and use guns.

When using the Laser, as soon as your target/targets is/are destroyed, switch the Laser off straight away - the less time it is on, the quicker it cools and allows you to start your next attack run sooner. That said, extending away from the target zone whilst the Laser cools for longer time periods also gives you more time to sort out your attack run and allows you to take out more than one target. (Patience is a virtue, I found after flying the A10, I need more time to sort my s**t out when lining up and designating targets in the Su25T).

The last tip I can give is if you are firing the "heavy" weapons, engage the Auto pilot for a short while before firing, this then sorts out the trim for you in a couple of seconds and you can then disengage the Auto pilot and carry on flying with relative ease.

[Boberro]

if I have the "Heavy" weapons like the Kh-25ML or Kh-29T (which is also fire and forget,

 

From since Kh-25ML is fire&forget weapon?

[nscode]

he said "which is fire and forget", not "which are"

 

 

so he meant just the 29T ;)

[graywo1fg]

not sure if this has been said or not... alot has just wanted to tell you to be sure to use your telescopic TV zoom times 40 billion to search for SAM and AAA threats :P

[Boberro]

he said "which is fire and forget", not "which are"

 

 

so he meant just the 29T ;)

 

Ouch.:thumbup:

[SoaringEagle74]

As far as I know, the only true 'fire and forget' weapons are anti-radiation missiles. They 'home-in' by themselves without any assistance from the launching platform.

 

All tv guided bombs and missiles require that the shikval targeting system(tv camera to be more precise)has locked on the target and the target remains within the camera's gimbal limits. In other words, you can't do a 180 degree turn after weapon launch and still expect to get a kill.

[SoaringEagle74]

The last tip I can give is if you are firing the "heavy" weapons, engage the Auto pilot for a short while before firing, this then sorts out the trim for you in a couple of seconds and you can then disengage the Auto pilot and carry on flying with relative ease.

 

Very good point. The auto-pilot becomes even more usefull when your flight controls experience 'ghost spikes' and you end up spending more time trimming the plane rather than engaging targets!

[Kuky]

As far as I know, the only true 'fire and forget' weapons are anti-radiation missiles. They 'home-in' by themselves without any assistance from the launching platform.

 

All tv guided bombs and missiles require that the shikval targeting system(tv camera to be more precise)has locked on the target and the target remains within the camera's gimbal limits. In other words, you can't do a 180 degree turn after weapon launch and still expect to get a kill.

 

Sure you can :smartass: once you fire the Kh-29T it alredy has locked point on the ground and no further assistance is required from the aircraft systems. This is why Kh-29T will only work on stationary targets... even if you lock onto a moving truck etc... the missile will not track the vehicle because... it will hit the point on the ground where vehicle was located when you launched it.

[Boberro]

even if you lock onto a moving truck etc... the missile will not track the vehicle because... it will hit the point on the ground where vehicle was located when you launched it.

 

 

I observed that I can lock moving truck but 'LA' is blinking so I can't fire, but truck is locked;)

[The_GOZR]

Alt+W ...

[Boberro]

I didnt mean how to override :P

[SoaringEagle74]

Sure you can :smartass: once you fire the Kh-29T it alredy has locked point on the ground and no further assistance is required from the aircraft systems. This is why Kh-29T will only work on stationary targets... even if you lock onto a moving truck etc... the missile will not track the vehicle because... it will hit the point on the ground where vehicle was located when you launched it.

 

If the plane turns enough then the camera's field of view will un-snap causing you to lose target lock!

[SoaringEagle74]

Something I noticed recently while attacking ground targets is that the phantasmagoria pod does not recognize the shilka aaa and strella short range sam. It does recognize most of the medium and long range sams such as tor, patriot, buk, kub..etc.

 

Whats the best way to deal with the shilka and strella since going in close spells doom and bombing must be done 3000 meters agl? I was flying the ukranian anti-artillery mission in 1.12b but I can't get close enough to do any real damage. In contrast the ai mig-27k's have no problem...as soon as they line up they start barrel rolling, releasing flares/chaff and dodge aaa and sam missiles. I really don't get it!

 

Does releasing chaff/flares require good timing such as missile launch warning or release at regular intervals? When is the best time to barrel roll and what impact does this have on sam/aaa radar? I am looking for details so be precise!;)

[Kuky]

The moving truck is locked by Shkval... Kh-29T wll not hit it though... you can only hit stationary targets... or a moving target that is apearing to not be moving (for example... if you fly very low in front of a moving vehicle and the vehicle is moving towards/away from you, the vehicle will be relatively stationary in respect to you) If you lock onto and fire on a target that is moving sideways, the Kh-29T will not hit it. Same is with TV guided bombs.

[Kuky]

If the plane turns enough then the camera's field of view will un-snap causing you to lose target lock!

Like I said, you don't need to keep lock. The missile will aready know where to "aim". If you are lasing then yes, you need to keep lock untill impact. With TV guided Kh-29T (or TV guided bombs) you don't... you lock, wait to get LA... then fire and disengage. But again, this is only for non moving targets.