LD-10s are too good.

[AeriaGloria]

Is it suppossed to target AWACS? I have not heard that before, it doesn’t in DCS, maybe it did shortly after release but I didn’t test that thorough, but I know the anti air target capability was removed to be realistic

[Jester2138]

In game Harm's are not intercepted and here lies the problem. Again unless you play competitive MP pvp including both air and ground warfare you will not understand the problem.

 

We all play "competitive MP pvp" as well. You're not special. The 1980s AGM-88C is not going to perform similarly to the 2010s LD-10. Full stop. Stop asking for it to, because it won't, and if you want it to be made so unrealistic you should find another game.

 

If you're truly concerned about balance, then the appropriate idea within a simulator would be to ask for contemporaries to the LD-10 such as the AGM-88E, which is a far, far better and more recent missile than the AGM-88C. But you're not doing that. Why?

[shaHeen-1]

If you're truly concerned about balance, then the appropriate idea within a simulator would be to ask for contemporaries to the LD-10 such as the AGM-88E, which is a far, far better and more recent missile than the AGM-88C. But you're not doing that. Why?

 

Trust in the deka brand to actually deliver XD

[Skarp]

it’s not necessarily a discussion of balance. DCS lacks any use of such a weapon because ED has not yet developed SAM AI. Bumping the RC up would at least present challenge. Otherwise what’s the point of using it knowing it will kill the target 99% of the time. Doesn’t even allow for human error.

[Auditor]

I'd love to know which area of the virtual JF17, its sub systems or weapons system's i'm not familiar with? You need to complete some testing prior to implying the Harm is a better system, as your very much misguided currently. Just to clarify we are talking about in game, this is all virtual lol.

 

 

In game Harm's are not intercepted and here lies the problem. Again unless you play competitive MP pvp including both air and ground warfare you will not understand the problem.

 

Okay, at the risk of maybe incurring some kind of anger from above: Frankly, this entire topic is stupid. It should have never been made in the first place because it takes the ridiculous idea that these two missiles are equivalent. This is why I'm accusing you of not knowing anything about this plane or these missiles; even a simple google search would have told you the reason why the two aren't comparable.

 

For more effort than it's worth, let's google both missiles and compare their features to understand why maybe the LD-10 has a better pk than the AGM-88C.

 

AGM-88:

 

• Made in 1985
  
• Has no INS
  
• A complete upgrade to the Shrike, of which was based on the sparrow.
  
  
• The C variant's strength was that in avionics, not flight characteristics
  

The LD-10

 

• Fielded in 2010 from SD10 specs from 2001
  
• Has an INS
  
• Is an SD-10 with an anti-radiation seeker, which means it has a flight profile similar to the AIM-120C5
  
• Which means it has all of the same advancements in flight dynamics and avionics made in the last thirty years. The AIM-120C5, SD-10, and LD-10 are highly comparable.
  

 

Now, I don't mean to be rude, but if you or the person who started this thread had gone to any of the general discussion forums and said "I think it's an outrage that my Sparrows are not performing as well as those skill-less AMRAAMs, unless you play competitive MP pvp including both air and ground warfare you will not understand the problem :clown:" the thread would probably be locked because of just how inane of a subject that is.

 

But then a thread does the same thing with the anti-radiation versions of the Sparrow and the Amraam and suddenly we're supposed to take it seriously because of the competitive MP aspect? This is a simulator. You bought an Early Access module of a plane made in the 70's to use a missile made in the 80's and are complaining that it's not competitive enough with a plane made in the early 00's with a missile made in the 10's. I don't know what you were expecting.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Auditor

[AeriaGloria]

If I did the math right and assuming a linear relationship, the in game values for Sparrow RCS is 8.8% greater then AMRAAM(and thus current SD-10) RCS

[Auditor]

That's just RCS, though. As I said before: I think the LD-10s succeed where HARMs don't because of their superior speed retention and better initial launch window, not because they can't be intercepted. HARMs get intercepted because they're traveling akin to a snail once they reach the emitter, and don't reach the same speeds LD-10s achieve post-launch. This is part of the white paper on the HARM itself as to why it was a needed upgrade from the significantly slower Shrike to spend less time in SAM interception windows, which the LD-10 does and explains the higher pk rate.

 

Is this a realistic interception rate for these SAM systems? Maybe. Do SAMs in DCS needs an IADS system to realistically intercept all incoming missiles? Absolutely. Are SAM operators in DCS just a little slow to begin with? We know that's true.

But with all that in mind, I think pointing the finger at the LD-10 because it's not comparable with the much older HARM when you have all these other factors working against it is quite frankly, silly.

 

 

I've edited my last two posts to be much less rude about it because I realize that my irritation got the better of me, but it's infuriating seeing people who just assume it has to be inferior because it's not a NATO aircraft, regardless of the age or capabilities of the weapons themselves or without even doing literally a google search. Or worse, suggest that it needs to be changed to fulfill "Balance" in the universe. Like just picture if a car pulled up in front of your house and clowns just started pouring out, that's the kind of irritation it makes me feel.

 

 

Even with active emitting I see it miss all the time since the INS update in ACT mode, with a 22kg warhead I’ve seen as much as 3 missiles to hit an active shooting SA-15

This is what I think was happening the other day when I was stating that they were missing or pursuing other targets. I think that's a legitimate bug that needs discussion instead of this thread.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Auditor

[Jester2138]

is quite frankly, silly.

 

I have another word starting with "S" for this idea.

[shaHeen-1]

I have another word starting with "S" for this idea.

Sagacious?

[AeriaGloria]

Found out Nuestrashimy with their Tor missile regularly intercepts it

[shaHeen-1]

Is that real life or dcs?

[lokodehortaleza]

This is what I think was happening the other day when I was stating that they were missing or pursuing other targets. I think that's a legitimate bug that needs discussion instead of this thread.

 

One day last week I spent all afternoon testing the LD-10 against various targets, because I thought it was bugged, I was shooting 4 LDs at a Buk (Sa-11) battery and not killing anything. Turns out once Buk locks you, if you shoot in SP mode the LD goes for the fire control radar, which is in the TELAR. In DCS it must be tougher than the search radar vehicle, and not a guaranteed kill. Individual Buk launchers will keep engaging you even if the search radar dies, and I seem to recall they are capable of doing this IRL.

 

Again, this is a DCS problem, damage model for ground vehicles is super simple. I suppose a TELAR carrying several big ass missiles on top of it should blow up pretty good even with a near-miss, but in DCS unless there's a direct hit it'll get maybe 10% damage and keep on engaging you as if nothing ever happened.

 

Other targets, like SA-2 sites, are almost guaranteed kills because the radar is a big soft target and once the Fan Song dies the sam site can't shoot you anymore.

 

But anyway, the unrealistic magic bullet argument I see here, doesn't match my ingame experience. LD-10 doesn't always kill the target even when it should, particularly if the radar happens to be in a light armored vehicle like SA-11, Tor or Tunguska. It's obviously hard to intercept because it's small and very fast, much faster than other AG weapons in DCS, but that's how it is in real life.

[AeriaGloria]

Is that real life or dcs?

 

Yes someone shot a Nuestrashimy with an LD-10 in real life:D

[shaHeen-1]

Yes someone shot a Nuestrashimy with an LD-10 in real life:D

 

I guess that answers OP's problem: just use a neutroshamy or whatever.

[Focha]

Hey guys the LD10s I’m sure are realistic but for gameplay sake could Deka bump the RC values up so tors have a similar intercept chance as the harms. I’m all about realism but the SAM ai is just not there yet and present no challenge. That or add a server option that bumps the RC up that doesn’t require modding.

 

Knowing the nature of DCS, requests like this just make me sad...

 

Also, as I defended on other posts, the fact that SAMs can take out ARMs is super relative. So, lately, we have assisted at a request for SAMs to kill ARMs... in reality, SAMs, probably just would turn off their radars if they suspected an incoming ARMs missile was on the way.

 

Sure that there are SAM systems that were designed to get slower bombs/missiles, like Tor.

 

But... now... nerf or buff should never get around DCS. Ever. This is, I hope, a simulator based on technical information and knowledge, not a game intended to be tweaked according to player desires.

 

For that, I think you will get MAC one day.