5ephir0th Posted May 10, 2020 Posted May 10, 2020 Noob question for sure. Im playing with editor and on a simple mission i create some Tunguskas on map. I start the mission on hot start hornet and already appear on SA page the air defense zones. No AWACS (i think they dont detects ground units by the way), no friendly units, no D/L... How the plane knows theres a air defense unit right there at the start (marked has S6)? Thanks guys NZXT H9 Flow Black | Intel Core i5 13600KF OCed P5.6 E4.4 | Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX | G.Skill Trident Z5 Neo DDR5-6000 32GB C30 OCed 6600 C32 | nVidia GeForce RTX 4090 Founders Edition | Western Digital SN770 2TB | Gigabyte GP-UD1000GM PG5 ATX 3.0 1000W | SteelSeries Apex 7 | Razer Viper Mini | SteelSeries Artics Nova 7 | LG OLED42C2 | Xiaomi P1 55" Virpil T-50 CM2 Base + Thrustmaster Warthog Stick | WinWing Orion 2 F16EX Viper Throttle | WinWing ICP | 3 x Thrustmaster MFD | Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals | Oculus Quest 2 DCS World | Persian Gulf | Syria | Flaming Cliff 3 | P-51D Mustang | Spitfire LF Mk. IX | Fw-109 A-8 | A-10C II Tank Killer | F/A-18C Hornet | F-14B Tomcat | F-16C Viper | F-15E Strike Eagle | M2000C | Ka-50 BlackShark III | Mi-24P Hind | AH-64D Apache | SuperCarrier
Swift. Posted May 10, 2020 Posted May 10, 2020 Those SAM threat rings are pre-loaded on the AMU in real life, because we dont have any kind of mission planner yet DCS just assumes that the mission has already been planned and adds them in. You can remove them by going into the mission editor and clicking 'hidden on planner' iirc. 476th Discord | 476th Website | Swift Youtube Ryzen 5800x, RTX 4070ti, 64GB, Quest 2
5ephir0th Posted May 10, 2020 Author Posted May 10, 2020 Thanks for the quick answer, just tried that and they keep appearing! NZXT H9 Flow Black | Intel Core i5 13600KF OCed P5.6 E4.4 | Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX | G.Skill Trident Z5 Neo DDR5-6000 32GB C30 OCed 6600 C32 | nVidia GeForce RTX 4090 Founders Edition | Western Digital SN770 2TB | Gigabyte GP-UD1000GM PG5 ATX 3.0 1000W | SteelSeries Apex 7 | Razer Viper Mini | SteelSeries Artics Nova 7 | LG OLED42C2 | Xiaomi P1 55" Virpil T-50 CM2 Base + Thrustmaster Warthog Stick | WinWing Orion 2 F16EX Viper Throttle | WinWing ICP | 3 x Thrustmaster MFD | Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals | Oculus Quest 2 DCS World | Persian Gulf | Syria | Flaming Cliff 3 | P-51D Mustang | Spitfire LF Mk. IX | Fw-109 A-8 | A-10C II Tank Killer | F/A-18C Hornet | F-14B Tomcat | F-16C Viper | F-15E Strike Eagle | M2000C | Ka-50 BlackShark III | Mi-24P Hind | AH-64D Apache | SuperCarrier
Swift. Posted May 10, 2020 Posted May 10, 2020 Hmm, perhaps you need to make them invisible. Im no ME expert so hopefully someone else can chime in 476th Discord | 476th Website | Swift Youtube Ryzen 5800x, RTX 4070ti, 64GB, Quest 2
VFA41_Lion Posted May 10, 2020 Posted May 10, 2020 Tick the box "hidden on map" and that will hide it in the SA page.
5ephir0th Posted May 10, 2020 Author Posted May 10, 2020 Hmm, perhaps you need to make them invisible. Im no ME expert so hopefully someone else can chime in This works, thanks! NZXT H9 Flow Black | Intel Core i5 13600KF OCed P5.6 E4.4 | Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX | G.Skill Trident Z5 Neo DDR5-6000 32GB C30 OCed 6600 C32 | nVidia GeForce RTX 4090 Founders Edition | Western Digital SN770 2TB | Gigabyte GP-UD1000GM PG5 ATX 3.0 1000W | SteelSeries Apex 7 | Razer Viper Mini | SteelSeries Artics Nova 7 | LG OLED42C2 | Xiaomi P1 55" Virpil T-50 CM2 Base + Thrustmaster Warthog Stick | WinWing Orion 2 F16EX Viper Throttle | WinWing ICP | 3 x Thrustmaster MFD | Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals | Oculus Quest 2 DCS World | Persian Gulf | Syria | Flaming Cliff 3 | P-51D Mustang | Spitfire LF Mk. IX | Fw-109 A-8 | A-10C II Tank Killer | F/A-18C Hornet | F-14B Tomcat | F-16C Viper | F-15E Strike Eagle | M2000C | Ka-50 BlackShark III | Mi-24P Hind | AH-64D Apache | SuperCarrier
Harker Posted May 11, 2020 Posted May 11, 2020 If you want to have Hidden units show up on the Mission Editor screen (for mission building purposes), you can click on the "View unit list" tab (looks like a triangle, diamond and square) and select "Show Hidden Units". The vCVW-17 is looking for Hornet and Tomcat pilots and RIOs. Join the vCVW-17 Discord. F/A-18C, F-15E, AV-8B, F-16C, JF-17, A-10C/CII, M-2000C, F-14, AH-64D, BS2, UH-1H, P-51D, Sptifire, FC3 - i9-13900K, 64GB @6400MHz RAM, 4090 Strix OC, Samsung 990 Pro
ebabil Posted May 11, 2020 Posted May 11, 2020 Might be a stupid question; can sam rings be loaded during the mission? for instance, a reconnaissance plane spotted a sam and let the HQ know. Can they send you the threat via a link? FC3 | UH-1 | Mi-8 | A-10C II | F/A-18 | Ka-50 III | F-14 | F-16 | AH-64 | Mi-24 | F-5 | F-15E| F-4| Tornado Persian Gulf | Nevada | Syria | NS-430 | Supercarrier // Wishlist: CH-53 | UH-60 Youtube MS FFB2 - TM Warthog - CH Pro Pedals - Trackir 5
Harlikwin Posted May 11, 2020 Posted May 11, 2020 Might be a stupid question; can sam rings be loaded during the mission? for instance, a reconnaissance plane spotted a sam and let the HQ know. Can they send you the threat via a link? Nope, not at this time at least, not sure if that's a thing IRL either. New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1) Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).
5ephir0th Posted May 11, 2020 Author Posted May 11, 2020 If you want to have Hidden units show up on the Mission Editor screen (for mission building purposes), you can click on the "View unit list" tab (looks like a triangle, diamond and square) and select "Show Hidden Units". Thanks for the tip NZXT H9 Flow Black | Intel Core i5 13600KF OCed P5.6 E4.4 | Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX | G.Skill Trident Z5 Neo DDR5-6000 32GB C30 OCed 6600 C32 | nVidia GeForce RTX 4090 Founders Edition | Western Digital SN770 2TB | Gigabyte GP-UD1000GM PG5 ATX 3.0 1000W | SteelSeries Apex 7 | Razer Viper Mini | SteelSeries Artics Nova 7 | LG OLED42C2 | Xiaomi P1 55" Virpil T-50 CM2 Base + Thrustmaster Warthog Stick | WinWing Orion 2 F16EX Viper Throttle | WinWing ICP | 3 x Thrustmaster MFD | Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals | Oculus Quest 2 DCS World | Persian Gulf | Syria | Flaming Cliff 3 | P-51D Mustang | Spitfire LF Mk. IX | Fw-109 A-8 | A-10C II Tank Killer | F/A-18C Hornet | F-14B Tomcat | F-16C Viper | F-15E Strike Eagle | M2000C | Ka-50 BlackShark III | Mi-24P Hind | AH-64D Apache | SuperCarrier
Greyman Posted May 11, 2020 Posted May 11, 2020 The range lines don't seem to show up when a hidden SAM locks you either, as I've just done a mission where a hidden SA-8 pops up and it didn't show on the SA screen. Having a HARM primed in SP mode and EW showing on HUD helped though. :)
Harker Posted May 12, 2020 Posted May 12, 2020 The range lines don't seem to show up when a hidden SAM locks you either, as I've just done a mission where a hidden SA-8 pops up and it didn't show on the SA screen. Having a HARM primed in SP mode and EW showing on HUD helped though. :)The threat rings shown on the SA page are pre-loaded into the system before takeoff, through the AMU and they represent intel at the time, on enemy SAM positions. They're not dynamic. The vCVW-17 is looking for Hornet and Tomcat pilots and RIOs. Join the vCVW-17 Discord. F/A-18C, F-15E, AV-8B, F-16C, JF-17, A-10C/CII, M-2000C, F-14, AH-64D, BS2, UH-1H, P-51D, Sptifire, FC3 - i9-13900K, 64GB @6400MHz RAM, 4090 Strix OC, Samsung 990 Pro
lt_d4n Posted May 12, 2020 Posted May 12, 2020 Hi! i have a question, when sa19 tunguska shoot me, why dont i get a launch signal in rwr? Also when it block me Thks
Fri13 Posted May 12, 2020 Posted May 12, 2020 Those SAM threat rings are pre-loaded on the AMU in real life, because we dont have any kind of mission planner yet DCS just assumes that the mission has already been planned and adds them in. Did you must have triggered again the fantasy of mine that we could get a briefing room and mission planning room with available intel? Damn, damn, damn.... Oh boy how we would have a recce pods on aircrafts that gets unloaded after successful landing and then takes X time to be prepared and ready in the mission planning room. If you find something, you could mark it to your kneeboard as well as your drawing skills are (regardless aircraft you have) and then you would give that information in debriefing room (if you managed to land safely back to base, otherwise the data is removed from access in easy way. So nothing is denying you to memorizing it). Then we would have the realistic kind radio communications where ground units are reporting their information from spotting something, their movements etc. And all has delays and situation is updated only when the reports are done. So you are dealing constantly with old and unreliable information on the mission planning room about your and enemy troops positions and possible types (so you might see on the mission lists and maps that enemy has hill X in control at least with a two platoon strength and couple APC's. Or that enemy colonna was spotted moving east on road 243 couple hours ago. And you have reports to read and with possible location/coordinates that you need to adapt for your use) so nothing reliable or "all knowing". You would truly need to plan your mission, decide the loadout for each sortie and decide do you accept automatically calculated fuel for the length of the flight etc. You would add the nearby units radio frequencies to your kneeboard etc and all that in simple "drag'n'drop" method. So the whole system would be a complete new 3D modeling in a room, get it built by using mouse dragging and dropping elements from the known intelligence (meaning, you can't add them in the "lobby" but only when you return back to base safely), maybe add own notes on kneeboard etc. And you only get intelligence updated when the information actually arrives to base by various means (pilots return back to base, messengers moves between bases, radio calls are received and sent etc). A truly new dynamic campaign functionality where even a simple mission would be a challenge as you would have zero information otherwise if not going through the briefing room first. Where either you make a own, or computer generates you the one best by its abilities. i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S. i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.
Fri13 Posted May 12, 2020 Posted May 12, 2020 Hi! i have a question, when sa19 tunguska shoot me, why dont i get a launch signal in rwr? Also when it block me Thks Most Soviet/Russian radars has a capability to track you optically. Tunguska does it as primary way. But if we get even a semi-realistic air defense networking AI to DCS, every pilot will start to crap to their pants because you are now dealing with situation where your RWR became mostly useless against SAM's. And you are dealing more with a visual spotting the missile launch and does it come at you. And if it comes at you, it is your thing to deal with it. The SAM network is challenging as the radar that search you is not where the launchers are or where tracking radars are. Not all requires a tracking radar to lock on you to launch a missile and guide it at you. It can go so that there is a early warning radar somewhere far where you can't touch it. It will keep a situation awareness of the sky in the area. When you fly to the area you are tagged with target ID. When you are on area where enemy has launchers in range, they are assigned your ID. Somewhere in the area there is a track radar that gets as well your ID. If it is good weather for the optical tracking, they can use that method. You are found and tracked optically. Then a launcher (SAM) is readied to launch missile at you where a separate guidance radar with very narrow beam guides the missile at your direction. You have no RWR warning whatsoever. Only thing that you can hope is that you spot the launch smoke cloud and missile smoke trail. Every pilot on the area that detects the launch will issue warning over radio if not so done yet, everyone checks is it them who is target. The missile is guided toward you by SAM network using datalinks, optical guidance and that narrow guidance radar. When the missile gets close to you, its semi-active seeker is activated (unless active or IR seeker) and in that moment the tracking radar locks on you. That is the time when your RWR picks up a lock and your audio system starts screaming the raw audio signal of the emission. You have about 3-10 seconds time to live depending the situation, as the missile might have been launched at you from 50 km distance or even further (like 200-300 km), in that point you must know where the threat is coming and then start performing proper action based that information. Now in the DCS every radar is constantly On (if not otherwise made using other methods) and it will issue warning to your RWR. And AI will launch by default as soon as possible, and they will even empty their launchers at you even if you are a burning wreck coming down on them while they visually look at you. So you will super easily get to see by your RWR that how amny and where directions each SAM is (but not the Tunguska or Strela-10) and you will get all the information that they are searching or when they lock on you and when they launch at you. Completely unrealistic behavior because AI is stupid, complete idiot and no one knows there are others etc. Why it is super easy to fly CAS, strikes etc because it is like playing with a 3 year old a hide and seek and not against a sniper trying to kill you in a forest. We don't either have a networked MANPADS. As there are teams that has radio links to SAM network, that will show them the targets in 25 km radius from their location that network knows. So those teams can jump to a car and quickly move to a position where they get good visual line of sight on you. They can be commanded to position by predicting enemy threat flying low past that area. So they can be even raised above treeline by using various methods and they have great view to the area to spot you visually or audible. We don't even have a radio communication network, where actual units would report every fast mover or helo they spot visually or audible. All such information is reported to communication network. Type, location, heading etc. If a soldier making spotting doesn't have radio, that information is delivered to squad leader, if squad leader doesn't have radio, it is commanded to be delivered to platoon leader. Platoon leader has radio that is used to deliver message to company level and messenger even backs it up. Depending the distances and situation, the information about spotted threat can be in the SAM network in couple minutes and as well informed to pilots flying CAP. Every single soldier on the ground is a potential threat to pilot to ruin their day. It is a source of information that enemy threat is on the area, where it is going and so on. So you can be flying low and fast to avoid early warning radars etc. But all it takes is that there is just a pair on watch in some position and they perform the warning forward. Depending the troops commands, they might even have a direct link to communication center that can relay information directly to corresponding units in the area, in that situation it is just few seconds when a fast mover or helicopter is known and it is already being prepared to be countered while the stupid pilot might be thinking that they are undetected because RWR has not said anything and they can perform safely the low altitude strike 20-30 km ahead of them, and there are people trained to be ready engage any flying target in less than 15 seconds after warning has been given. And DCS doesn't model anything even close to that. Because it is still using the old Flanker 2.0 level AI grouping and their magical cheating AI. These are as well reason why it is not such a problem that EW radars are mobile only in a few hours, larger SAM sites are relocated in minutes and smaller ones can be relocated even in seconds, because the command and communications structure is so effective to deny the enemy flying operations. Now in the DCS the biggest threat is MANPADS and Tunguska (or Strela-10) that can launch something that goes easily unnoticed by the pilot. While the whole thing would be like that in good situation. Why you really would like to fly at night and low visibility weather so that you start to deny such systems (again, there are thermals on some of those etc) and limit the reaction times etc. But you are doing that same disservice to yourself as well. And that is one of the illusions that people get that when they get A-G radar on Hornet and Viper, that they can just scan the map and find all the units and generate great situational awareness and just pick up targets by zooming in are of interest and go there and drop a bomb. Nothing like that. Why you will go through your mission for hours, you use other intelligence that found you the targets, you study the area you prepare for the target and then you follow the plan. You are not there searching targets and engaging them by your own. You are not the one making decisions do you drop bomb on newly found SAM or launch maverick at MBT or blow a bridge. All such decisions comes from higher in command and you only report what you learned, unless you are tasked to perform the special tasking like SEAD in the area. i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S. i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.
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