SU-25T always bank left...

[S77th-konkussion]

You cannot reset the trim with Ctrl-T whilst flying the T-Bird. Has to be attended to Manually.

 

 

For the 3rd time in this thread alone...:smartass:

[Boberro]

You have a force feedback keyboard ?

 

Yeah sometimes when too strong press key or when FC corrupt keyboard I can use force. Then my keyboard has FORCE feedback :P

[SoaringEagle74]

Yeah, those AFM planes can be a real pain in the butt however they force you to refine your flying skills which is good. As others have mentioned you must manually trim for everything. I don't really have a problem other than while trying to take off...the plane yaws to one direction or another and requires very gentle rudder input to correct. It is quite easy to oversteer and flip over or at least run off the runway.

 

While airborne it is good practice to use the auto-pilot whenever possible especially if there is an -un-even load or the plane has sustained damage. The bigger the -im-balance the more you need to trim. Use ctrl-3 to level off and correct for roll and yaw. Wait at least half a minute to allow for thorough corrections before disengaging.

 

Don't assume that just because the three indicators are green the plane will fly straight and level. Each trim indicator when green only indicates that the corresponding trim control is neutral...nothing more!

 

For the joystick I recommend using a small amount of deadzone for all inputs except the throttle, about one unit. I also have noticed that my joystick is not dead centered on the x/y axis. I have tried to calibrate it many times but it always appears slightly up and left of dead center. I am not sure if its a joystick issue, software problem or -un-level table.

[159th_Viper]

For the 3rd time in this thread alone...:smartass:

 

Sometimes you have to Persevere.......:)

[Weta43]

Yeah, those AFM planes can be a real pain in the butt however they force you to refine your flying skills which is good

but don't you love em ? esp the 'A'

 

As long as you watch the AOA ...

 

Actually - that's one of the things I like most about having the FFB enabled - that if you do over do it with the AOA you can feel it as you do and the controls start to flip ( and the trimming actually moves the stick around in the true Russian way :-)

[Jagged]

The pitch/roll axis must be set to "curve" and not linear. Not to say it's perfect but better than before... until weapon released, so back to manual flying. By the way my joystick is Sidewinder2 FF.

 

S77th-konkussion is right, there's no "Cancel Trim" in 25T.

[graywo1fg]

.... no its the other way around man it needs to be set to linear with the T with curve you will feel like there is a horrible dead zone only when flying the T but curve is just fine in other planes

[Jagged]

Maybe others with MSFF2 might want to share a thing or two....

[Weta43]

OK - I've used a MSFFB2 for a few years now, and with FC since it was released.

I found with MSFFB2 & FFB enabled I prefer to have the axis set to one tick mark short of linear when flying either of the Su-25 versions, and that ends up giving about the same amount of response for the AFM planes for a given stick deflection as setting the slider to the center (normal curve) for SFM planes. ED does recomend flat for the AFM planes, but I found dead flat a bit twitchy round the middle, while 1 tick mark just eases that area of the controls (gives a very slight curve - oh - & i've taken the deadzones back to as small as I can get them..)

I have flown the AFM planes with normal curve when testing mission & I couldn't be bothered changing the settings, & they're flyable, but pretty sluggish and unresponsive around middle stick. Needs a lot of input to get them to do anything. Same but the other way around for SFM with linear - they're flyable, but twitchy....

[Jagged]

Thanks Weta43, I'll post the screenshot of the setting I used.

 

Regards

[SoaringEagle74]

but don't you love em ? esp the 'A'

 

As long as you watch the AOA ...

 

Actually - that's one of the things I like most about having the FFB enabled - that if you do over do it with the AOA you can feel it as you do and the controls start to flip ( and the trimming actually moves the stick around in the true Russian way :-)

 

What do you mean by force feedback? Is that when the stick shakes with a high aoa or what? I don't think my thrustmaster combo has such features.

 

As I have mentioned in previous posts my throttle and rudder suffer from ghost spikes and my controls are slightly off centered. It doesn't really affect my flying performance but taxiing and takeoff are a b.tch!;)

[Peyoteros]

hey,

 

I hope that you already have found the problem and sorted it out, but if not , maybe this one will help. I had problems on Saitek X-52, and it was due to default Dead Zone setting in the game, don't know why it happens, but on the freshly installed game I ALWAYS have D-Zone set (pic1) and it makes my plane go left, even on the runway when taking off it always leans left, try to set D-Zone to zero, (pic2), that should fix it. If Your joystick has an ability to get programmed, You may need to delete all in game controls which doubles with your profile, as it may cause a conflict. :joystick: Ctrl+T is not helping on Su-25T, thou it does resets trim on other planes. But I still believe that problem is caused by D-Zone default settings within the game.

 

Good luck and wish You a blue sky!:pilotfly:

[Weta43]

Interesting - you have your Axis' set as sliders ...

 

 

FYI:

 

Roll:

 

Pitch

 

Rudder (bit of curve 'cause I tend to twist when I'm 'stressed')

[diveplane]

as in real life, most russian aircraft you have to trim ..all the time..

[mjolner]

So is your issue resolved Jagged?

 

If not some questions. What are your auto pilot indications in the pit. Any green lights on when you do not desire them? What are your trim indications and is your stick showing deflection?

 

Are you flying with a custom profile or key configuration? If so have you returned to default?

 

Tried disconnecting the stick and loading the default quick mission. The frog should fly straight and level.

 

In the option menu when you are setting up your axis is the little white crosshair centered when you release your Joystick handle? Are there any joy button conflicts giving you aileron trim when not desired.

 

Either Frog with AFM have very stable flight models and require little trim adjustment unless you are frequently changing thrust and/or wing loads ie releasing payload. Joystick input should be linear not sure how you could fly with a curve with AFM, must feel like a 747.

 

I have seen all manner of joysticks used with Lock On and all problems are usually solved by simple issues. Eliminate the hardware first by disconnecting and running the game. If issues persist set buttons and axis to default and run game. Try running a different game with stick and look for possible hardware issue. If fault is only in LO try deleting all Joy inputs in the setup up menu then selectively activate different axis and try that route. Usually something of this nature fixes the issue. Of course I am assuming that the stick is calibrated (if needed) and works fine in direct x regardless of games. Could even try reloading DirectX as this is the medium through which your stick communicates with OS.

 

Anyway hope you find your issue.

[Weta43]

What do you mean by force feedback? Is that when the stick shakes with a high aoa or what?

Amongst other things - yes. Generally the force to deflect the stick is proportional to the forces on the control surfaces, not simply how far off center the stick is. Damaged control systems or imballanced forces also 'feed back'. overspeed, airbrakes, stall, (turbulence), all can be felt.

Trimming in Russian planes moves the stick off center - as for the real systems.

Getting hit by a SAM or A2A missile can give you a shock, because if it's a reasonable hit, feedback from control surface will change, and the stick will 'jump' in your hand - you then have to fight it to get control back...

[Jagged]

This is my setting (setting 2), a bit lag but ok, as for setting no 1, it flies straight like an arrow but needs more input from you to pitch/roll the aircraft.

 

I'm going to try Weta43's setting tonight, and I'll share the result.

[mjolner]

Whoah..... With those curves you lose about 75% of your control authority. That stick must be extremely sensitive. Lets say your on a gun run, diving with combat flaps, as you accelerate your nose wants to rise so you increase pressure however your stick settings are way too sensitive and you would over compensate. If you can dive on a tank and hit him greater than 1K with those stick settings you are the man. You could of course use your ACS but that comes with its own problems particularly when you are pulling out from your attack.

 

There must be another solution for you.

[worldsurfradio]

I have the same left drift problem with the SU-25 using a Saitek evo wireless - but no probs with fast jets - and I have calibrated

[Jagged]

Weta43, your setting was way too sensitive for me, guess I'll stick to mine.

 

Whoah..... With those curves you lose about 75% of your control authority. That stick must be extremely sensitive. Lets say your on a gun run, diving with combat flaps, as you accelerate your nose wants to rise so you increase pressure however your stick settings are way too sensitive and you would over compensate. If you can dive on a tank and hit him greater than 1K with those stick settings you are the man. You could of course use your ACS but that comes with its own problems particularly when you are pulling out from your attack.

 

There must be another solution for you.

 

Just feels right for me... diving attack with guns blazing never misses its target but you really need to control the diving speed otherwise your wings might torn apart.

[mjolner]

So, if I may, to clarify your stick problem and "solution", your wings bank left ( only in the 25T ), because of some FF2 anomaly. This only occurs in the 25T correct? And your fix is to create a large dead zone in the center neutral area and create an excessive response curve which is contrary to even the devs recommendation for AFM planes

 

quote from 1.1 readme:

 

"A dead zone would create a “flat” response area (local control insensitivity zone) when balancing the dependencies in the mid-angle of attack range (5 - 10°). This would make angle of attack and G-loading control difficult."

 

But all in all you are happy with this fix and will continue smartly. Hey if it works for you run with it. I just think something simple is amiss with your configuration or drivers.

 

Happy flying

[Weta43]

It actually ( well for me anyway & to the right, not left ) happens very noticeably for both AFM planes - and can be seen at spawning - if in the air - or while taxi-ing at above about 60km/h if starting from runway or parking area - as, until trimmed, with no pressure applied the stick sits a couple of degrees off to the right.

It actually isn't a big deal as once you've trimmed & made the initial correction - you're in the same boat as everyone else (trimming all the time anyway :-)

I usually hold down 'trim left' for about 3 seconds as soon as I've got the engines up to speed or as soon as I start to roll on the runway, & that pretty much sorts it.

But I am curious why it happens.

It is very slightly there in SFM's too, but nowhere near so noticeable.

It's NOT there in Il-2, msfs or when I use the same stick in GTR, F-1 or NFS

[mjolner]

It actually ( well for me anyway & to the right, not left ) happens very noticeably for both AFM planes - and can be seen at spawning - if in the air - or while taxi-ing at above about 60km/h if starting from runway or parking area - as, until trimmed, with no pressure applied the stick sits a couple of degrees off to the right.

It actually isn't a big deal as once you've trimmed & made the initial correction - you're in the same boat as everyone else (trimming all the time anyway :-)

I usually hold down 'trim left' for about 3 seconds as soon as I've got the engines up to speed or as soon as I start to roll on the runway, & that pretty much sorts it.

But I am curious why it happens.

It is very slightly there in SFM's too, but nowhere near so noticeable.

It's NOT there in Il-2, msfs or when I use the same stick in GTR, F-1 or NFS

 

This is where I am not understanding. You say your "( Trimming all the time anyway ) " With the 25T advanced ACS ( w/ AFM ) and the vanilla frog without ACS they have very stable airframes as long as loads are balanced, and even if you release some iron and wings start banking use the ACS (25T) to balance yourself out then turn ACS off, its simple and brilliant. Read the manual on the ACS and map some keys, its a must if you fly the T.

 

If you are banking left or right just after you hit the S key, your stick is giving inadvertant control inputs that need to be addressed not trimmed out. I really wish I could trouble shoot your sticks myself. Oh well.

[Weta43]

Thanks mjolner.

This is where I am not understanding. You say your "( Trimming all the time anyway ) " With the 25T advanced ACS ( w/ AFM ) and the vanilla frog without ACS they have very stable airframes as long as loads are balanced

Sloppy use of language on my part - I guess it's a question of what constitutes 'out of trim', and 'all the time' ...

Yes the'yre very flyable, nicely modelled aircraft (see my many posts about getting Su-25A into DCS as basic trainer before announcement of A-10 as first fixed wing aircraft)

These days I've left the Su-25T and almost exclusively fly the Su-25A - which has no ACS, and which (if you want it to fly straight and level with no pressure on the stick) needs frequent small amounts of pitch trim adjustment as fuel is used, speed changed etc.. Also roll & yaw if weapons are released or the load is unballanced.

I do know how to use the various functions of the autopilot in the 'T', & that 's all very well while it's engaged and for a period of time afterwards, but again for that plane - if flown for any length of time with it disengaged, the plane needs regular pitch adjustments, and I usually find it more convenient after weapons release to just trim manually than hitting alt-3 & waiting for the autopilot to do it for you - esp with FFB enabled, which means you can feel if you're out of trim.

I agree the obvious cause to suspect would be that the stick is sending an amount of input even when centered - & maybe it is - but it doesn't show as off center in any of the configuration screens of LO/FC's, the Sidewinder software that came with it, or the setups for any of the other games I use it for.

And it doesn't give off center inputs in any other games.

As I mentioned, the stick doesn't cause a roll at spawning for other flight sims, & as the 'roll' axis for the stick is the 'turn' axis if using it for driving, & as I always take out the deadzones, if the stick were not centering, cars would tend to turn right - which they don't...

Anyway - not a big deal - I've put up with it for a long time now & it's only an issue for the first 5 seconds of any flight...

I was more posting because someone else had a similar thing with FFB enabled & I wondered if it were part of the whole 'FFB is buggy thing' - though I have no evidence of any problems w/ FFB (other than this)

Oh well.

[mjolner]

My apologies if my previous post seemed to imply that you lacked a fundamental knowledge of the games mechanics.

 

I really need to remember to thoroughly read all posts in a thread before posting. I am always passionate about fixing problems when I think that someone is missing out on a great simming experience. I get a little overzealous.

 

Anyway, thanks for clarifying. Honestly, I do not use an FF2; several of my friends do and they never mentioned this issue. I personnally use a Cougar, frought with problems of its own but I could never go back to plastic.