New on the Av8, can someone help?

[Stratos]

I'm new on the Av8, hope someone can help with my doubts.

 

First of all, the Mk.82 Snakeeyes, I'm using the CCIP mode, bombs fall too long, 25 to 30m, even when properly launching at proper point, what I'm doing wrong?

 

Regarding the ARBS, I should be able to move the aimpoint right? But how to do it?

[ChickenKarma]

Make sure when you select the weapon on the stores page that you set 82H (high drag) not 82L (low drag) this allows or inhibits the drag fins but doesnt affect what the computer 'thinks' is loaded.

 

Second, depending if ur using the dmt or a tpod. You'll need to sensor sel down to tv to slew or press the tdc option in the tpod page to slew there.

Then use tdc commands (buttons or axis) to move it.

:)

[Captain Orso]

There is no need for using DMT nor TPOD with CCIP, but it can be useful having the target carrot on the HUD as a way to locate the target quickly while running in. It may also have some affect on accuracy, but it will not remove any requirements associated with using CCIP. You still have to put the cross directly on the target etc.

 

To use CCIP you need to dive in fairly steeply and release so that you don't come too low, mainly to avoid enemy AAA and other fire.

 

Mk-82 SE and Air are not precision weapons. You will do better with normal Mk-82 LD and CCIP.

 

The entire concept of Mk-82 SE and Air is to be able to come in very low and still deploy bombs without risking being near the detonation. To do that you use AUTO mode.

[shagrat]

Retarded bombs like Mk-82 SE and AIR with the ballute, can be dropped in CCIP, though this is for low level, nap-of -the-earth style delivery, where you don't know the exact location and/or cannot designate beforehand.

You can run in low and fast using terrain masking and speed to make it harder for defences to react, acquire the target visually either directly on the low level approach or by doing a pop up.

The key for the low level CCIP is speed, as it puts the bomb pipper in the HUD if you fly low enough. A pop up gives you a better view to acquire the target and a shallow angle, but exposes you to enemy fire... This kind of delivery as Cpt. Orso pointed out is pretty rare with modern radarguided AAA and SHORAD around. Recently standoff and high altitude AUTO delivery, especially with the precision of smart bombs, is the usual way to go.

[lukeXIII]

As others have said, high drag bombs are not precise and you shouldn't expect them to be pinpoint accurate.

 

Going in depth: the logic RAZBAM uses to calculate the CCIP mode impact point WITHOUT A DESIGNATION POINT is very weird. It will attempt to use the elevation of whatever the velocity vector is pointed (e.g a mountain) at as the reference altitude. If this elevation is different to your target elevation then your bomb will fall short or long of the target (even though it will look like your pipper is on target). The solution to this is to always have your target designated beforehand until RAZBAM fixes this.

[lukeXIII]

Example of said behaviour:

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by lukeXIII

[shagrat]

As others have said, high drag bombs are not precise and you shouldn't expect them to be pinpoint accurate.

 

 

 

Going in depth: the logic RAZBAM uses to calculate the CCIP mode impact point WITHOUT A DESIGNATION POINT is very weird. It will attempt to use the elevation of whatever the velocity vector is pointed (e.g a mountain) at as the reference altitude. If this elevation is different to your target elevation then your bomb will fall short or long of the target (even though it will look like your pipper is on target). The solution to this is to always have your target designated beforehand until RAZBAM fixes this.

According to your video the height is calculated from the radar altimeter, at your current position, not the velocity vector (RCIP indication on the HUD). So if you overfly a hill or ridgeline, the radar altimeter is varying for a short time with your nose dive this leads to a considerable error.

Either go low enough to have a stable bomb cross and try to overfly the target from a direction with terrain on a similar height (e.g. not across a hill or down a ridge), or use CCIP to AUTO conversion. To do that put the reflected cue on the target, press and hold the bomb release button while the reflected cue is visible.

[lukeXIII]

RCIP (BCIP and GCIP as well) is not functional.

 

Here's a better representation:

 

Notice how everything looks normal when the velocity vector is tracking along the ground and then immediately starts going weird as soon as the velocity vector tracks up the mountain. Also notice the behaviour when a target designation is placed at a higher elevation than the jet: the RCIP solution becomes invalid no matter how close you fly to the ground.

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by lukeXIII

[Stratos]

Pretty interesting. I tought I would need to deploy the SE in fast level flight, but works better in a dive?

 

Reagarding the ARBS, how can I make the DDI active?

[=52d= Skip]

... the RCIP solution becomes invalid no matter how close you fly to the ground.

 

Never saw this erratic behavior.

 

Pretty interesting. I tought I would need to deploy the SE in fast level flight, but works better in a dive?

 

Reagarding the ARBS, how can I make the DDI active?

 

The whole idea behind the SE was that you can fly low, and thus undetected, and still could hit your target without fragging yourself. So yes, fast (450-500kts) and low (200-500ft) is the way to go - or a shallow dive.

As you can see in my example this works well. Target was an SA-6, with an SA-15 and some Shilkas as close in Defense.

 

Not sure if I understand your last question.

 

 

[Stratos]

Nice video, nice bomb deployment, I keep testing.

 

For the DDI I mean, select the DDI displaying the ARBS as active so I can slew the ARBS around and select my target.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Stratos

[shagrat]

Nice video, nice bomb deployment, I keep testing.

 

For the DDI I mean, select the DDI displaying the ARBS as active so I can slew the ARBS around and select my target.

SensorSelectSwitch aft 2 times.

[shagrat]

Yep, good representation of pushing the nose down and producing negative Gs. That's why the cue can't calculate the Bomb fall as it would "drop" upwards, through your plane.

If you release with that much of a stick pushed forward the chance to dive straight into your own bombs is pretty darn high!

I can force the same "problems", but basically by doing everything you shall NOT do in an airplane when dropping bombs.

[lukeXIII]

The issue doesn't have anything to do with negative G's. Watch the start of the video again, I'm putting on positive and negative Gs and the pipper acts normally because the velocity vector is intersecting a similar elevation to the ground in front.

[=52d= Skip]

The issue doesn't have anything to do with negative G's. Watch the start of the video again, I'm putting on positive and negative Gs and the pipper acts normally because the velocity vector is intersecting a similar elevation to the ground in front.

 

The negative G´s are not the cause, but they amplify your "Problem". You are very much out of trim and this contributes as well.

 

I tried to reproduce what you are seeing and here is what I think is happening:

- At 0.09 things look ok; you are in an upward motiona gainst a Mountain with a valid solution

- At 0.11 you somehow created a TGT designation against the slope and ofc your solution is immediately invalid because your target is right where the FPM is.

Pushing the nose down makes it worse in this case.

- At 0.32 you undesignate the TGT and voila´ CCIP pipper is back where it needs to be.

 

Video ends.

I´d say CCIP tracking works well even agains a slope (to some degree). At one point the system can not cope anymore tho and quits, which is expected.

 

So I would suggest you check your bindings to make sure you´re not accidently designating when you don´t want to.

 

If you have access to the TAC-000 you can read up on how it is calculating the CCIP impact point.

[shagrat]

(...)here is what I think is happening:

- At 0.09 things look ok; you are in an upward motiona gainst a Mountain with a valid solution

- At 0.11 you somehow created a TGT designation against the slope and ofc your solution is immediately invalid because your target is right where the FPM is.

Pushing the nose down makes it worse in this case.

- At 0.32 you undesignate the TGT and voila´ CCIP pipper is back where it needs to be.

 

Video ends.

I´d say CCIP tracking works well even agains a slope (to some degree). At one point the system can not cope anymore tho and quits, which is expected.

 

So I would suggest you check your bindings to make sure you´re not accidently designating when you don´t want to.

 

If you have access to the TAC-000 you can read up on how it is calculating the CCIP impact point.

Good spot! I totally missed that on my Smartphone.

The issue doesn't have anything to do with negative G's. Watch the start of the video again, I'm putting on positive and negative Gs and the pipper acts normally because the velocity vector is intersecting a similar elevation to the ground in front.

I made a screen shot and marked the TGT designation. It may help you find out what key/axis may interferes/designates accidently...

This is definitely not intended behaviour and does not happen for me.

 

Really thought it was the system fighting the nose down and oscillation, but with that point on the ridgeline designated at 14/13 nm in front it even does make sense, in a way.

 

[lukeXIII]

The target designation was intentional to try to highlight the issue but I see I didn't explain it very well.

 

The best way I've found to highlight the issue is to compare the RCIP in the AV8B to the CCIP in the A10C which is behaving correctly.

 

A10C:

 

Flying level towards the dam we can see that the CCIP pipper moves up and down as we fly over the ridge, and when we pass over the dam we can see a sudden and rapid change in the CCIP pipper as a result of the sudden change in radar altitude (we can even pinpoint where the lip of the dam is).

 

Now compare this to the AV8B under very similar conditions:

 

The RCIP is invalid the entire time we are in level flight, which is obviously not correct.

 

Here's a similar test however the dive angle is changed so we can get a valid RCIP pipper:

 

The pipper seems to be correct this time however as we fly over the dam there is no significant change in the pipper as a result of the sudden change in elevation, unlike what happened with the A10C.

 

So what exactly is happening that is making the RCIP pipper so different to that in the A10C? Well let's try putting this into practice and try to bomb a target that is sitting at the bottom of the dam:

 

The bomb is released as the pipper passes over the target, however when we inspect the bomb trajectory we can see that it landed significantly short of the target. Flying back around to the target we can see that the designation point that was generated was floating above and before the target. Why was this target designation point generated here and not on the target? The rough image I made below shows how this designation is created; the Height Over Target (HOT) is being calculated from where the velocity vector is intersecting the ground (or water in this case) which is resulting an RCIP pipper angle that is not related to our target.

 

So to conclude; without a target already designated the RCIP is not using the radar altimeter height to calculate the HOT, but is instead using the velocity vector. (This behaviour is also the same if you switch RCIP to GCIP or BCIP.

[Mars Exulte]

Some of you guys should go to work in forensics. You notice everything

[amalahama]

Some of you guys should go to work in forensics. You notice everything

 

Some of you guys could fly Ace Combat or War Thunder. You don't notice any bug and keep saying Harrier is just fine

[Mars Exulte]

Some of you guys could fly Ace Combat or War Thunder. You don't notice any bug and keep saying Harrier is just fine

 

#1 It was a compliment, meaning they readily notice little details easily missed, useful when troubleshooting.

 

#2 Some of you guys are just dicks that complain incessantly. Prior to this patch (which appears to have broken a ton of stuff game wide) the Harrier was in good shape. Still stuff missing? Yes. But it's not ERHMAGERD bad like some of our resident drama queens like to pretend, while screaming shrill insults about people's competency and work. There's ''criticism'' (good) and then ''being a douche'' (bad). Some people have difficulty distinguishing between the two. I have a pretty good idea now which category you're in.

[Stratos]

Problem is I cannot get my SE on target, can someone please post a video of how you do it so I can check what I'm doing wrong.

[Captain Orso]

Problem is I cannot get my SE on target, can someone please post a video of how you do it so I can check what I'm doing wrong.

 

Look at any video showing how to do AUTO (CCRP) delivery, and simply fly lower - far lower.

[lukeXIII]

Nah I think he's on to something. High drag bombs seem to consistently land past the target for me as well.

[=52d= Skip]

Problem is I cannot get my SE on target, can someone please post a video of how you do it so I can check what I'm doing wrong.

 

Some 47 Mins in, Bookmarks in the Description.

Low, fast and steady.

Be generous.

If your bombs fall long, aim short, if they fall short, aim long.