No radar-homing MANPADs

[WelshZeCorgi]

I wanted to ask any weapon experts if there was a reason why there are heat-seeking manpads, but no radar homing manpads. Since most of the casualties inflicted by manpads are rotary winged helicopters, and based on my experience in DCS, most helicopters do not have an RWR or release chaff, so they are incredibly vulnerable to them.

 

I've definitely had my share of getting blown out of the sky as a helicopter in Multiplayer, but since I don't have a working RWR, I have no idea I was even fired upon until I get hit by an R-77 or Aim120.

 

Is it because creating a small enough radar system for it to be an effective man portable system is impossible, even with today's miniaturized tech? Is it because it would be too easy to counter? (putting in RWR systems and chaff in a helicopter wouldn't be too difficult or expensive?)

 

Also same thing for TV-guided, why are there no TV-guided manpads?

[Mars Exulte]

Because an IR seeker is relatively small and can be fitted on a small missile easily carried by a man. It passively detects and follows a heat source. This passive nature also makes them ideal as surprise, close range weapons for troops otherwise vulnerable to aircraft. It's a relatively ''handsoff'' weapon. So, cheap, small, easy to use, well suited for the task. Neither radar nor TV missiles are as suited for the purpose, that's why they're not used.

 

As for you being engaged by fighters in DCS, there is rarely anything realistic about how anything goes down on your average server. You would never be operating in a combat zone, with enemy fighters present, without close cooperation with your OWN fighters. So, helos don't have RWR as a rule, because they don't need it, because they are never really in a position where that is an issue unless they're well and truly losing the war. A helo is a massive, slow moving radar signature anyway, so chaff etc aren't likely to do much good. Either you're low enough to have a hill between you and the enemy, or you're dead. That simple.

 

Sometimes people will quote a ''study'' about helo vs jet, but they often neglect a key detail : the fighters were deliberately hobbled with RoEs that did not allow BVR engagement. In the real world, if a helo's sloppy flying gets him detected by a fast mover, he's going to die within the next 60 seconds, just like in DCS, unless ANOTHER fighter intervenes.

 

Real world =/= multiplayer AirQuake server.

[Lucas_From_Hell]

Complementing what zhukov said, a few operators have sought less spoofable alternatives to infrared guidance. Sweden's RBS 70 fires a laser beam rider missile, while the British Javelin and Starstreak work with SACLOS guidance (i.e. keep the sight on the target until impact).

[kengou]

Also worth mentioning that MANPADs only have an effective range that is well within IR seeker range as well. Why carry a bulky radar system (and it would certainly be very bulky) when you can just use passive IR detection? Radar doesn't really give many, if any, benefits at this range while it has tons of drawbacks for the infantry.

[DD_Fenrir]

This all about antenna diameter and power as these will directly effect range and acquisition.

 

Take the AMRAAM - at what range/ToF does the seeker actually go active? It's probably within the approximate range of an IR seeker head, yet you have to generate the wattage - from within the missile - to power the guidance system, control system AND provide enough juice to generate a radar signal that is going to allow the missile the necessary oomph to illuminate the target. That means batteries and substantial one's too. This means weight.

 

This weight will mean a more powerful (=larger = heavier) motor is required than on a similar IR manpad even over short ranges as you have zero Potential energy launching from a zero speed zero altitude position.

 

Pretty quickly you are going to end up carrying (or trying to!) something the size and weight of an amraam but with marginal advance in range over an IR.

 

Also how do you acquire a target? Do you let the missile seeker maddog in the general direction of a target? How long are you letting the radar be powered whilst it's still in it's tube? Is it being powered by the onboard missile battery? If so, every second you spend doing that will decrease the range in the air as I would assume most active missile battery systems are designed to last only marginally longer than the time of 'pitbull', else that is extra weight you are carrying for little gain...

Edited August 17, 2020 by DD_Fenrir

[Looney]

Not to mention that everyone and their mother will know exactly where you are because you're shining a very bright beacon of RF energy into the surroundings, not really a passive system....

 

Laser guided air defense systems such as the british Starstreak do not use an IR seeker but are commanded using a Laser by the operator.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Looney