Mi-24 Hind

[Hussar]

Hi all,

my apology if this has been asked already before. I tried to search for this in the existing topics but had no luck. Could someone please confirm if Mi-24 Hind will be also flyable or will it be purely AI operated heli? Last Hind simulation I flew was in (excellent) "Hind" sim by Digital Integration in the late 90s and since then, there were other helicopter simulations but none so far had Mi-24 Hind that was properly simulated and flyable by "humans" ;-). I think it is time for this great helicopter to make a return and DCS I think is just the place where this should happen. Perhaps as a later add on flyable helicopter if not released first up? I understand it is not an easy task to model all helicopters BUT Mi-24 is a legendary machine deserving a place in the release as a flyable simulation together with Ka-50 helicopter. Lastly, will there be national skins for helicopters to choose from for example say Polish, Czech etc for Mi-24 if it gets released? Appreciate a reply. Thank you and sorry again if this has been already answered somewhere else. I am looking forward to DCS "Black Shark" :-)

[mvsgas]

As you can see it has been ask several times. It is very interesting helicopter and looks menacing

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/index.php?end_pos=718&scr=default&lang=en

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=11352&highlight=Mi-24+hind

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=11590&highlight=Mi-24+hind

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=17849&highlight=Mi-24+hind

Just some link where it has been ask before, not much info, sorry.

Q: Your press release indicates that Black Shark is the first in a series of DCS modules, with more aircraft/helicopters to follow. How soon will these new aircraft become available?

A: We are already developing the A-10A “Warthog" and AH-64A “Apache” (with planned front-seat / back-seat multiplayer) and other western and eastern aircraft will follow with an approximate interval of every nine months. To announce these later aircraft now would be premature because plans can often change and lead to delays due to numerous factors such as our work in the equally important military simulation market.

I believe for now there is no plan for MI-24, maybe one of the guys that work for ED will have a better answer.

[Avimimus]

I can confirm that there is no announced plan for the Mi-24 (that I've seen on these forums anyway). I know this because I haven't broken any chairs in a fit of excitement recently...

 

So, it isn't on ED's list (neither is the Su-25 for that matter).

 

The only good news is that you're not alone: There were some unofficial polls set up a while ago and the Hind initially had 64% of the vote (I think the next place had 18%). So, there are a lot of us hoping for 2012...

 

The question for me is: what variant? Some have door gunners you know... I personally would like to try both the Yak-b and the GSH-30K.

 

Finally, I just want to emphasize that I say no announced plan out of humility not because I have insider knowledge.

(I don't know why some people always insist on seeing things in an optimistic light)...

[Hussar]

Hello and thank you guys for this info so far. I am hoping that someone from the development team might shine some light on this. I think it would be REAL SAD if AH-64A "Apache" was done (again as per previous heli sims done by other developers) BUT NOT Mi-24 "Hind". Frankly, and this is personal choice for me, I am only going to buy this IF there is Mi-24 Hind "decently flyable by humans" in the game with pilot, WSO and - door gunner(s) if possible (but pilot and WSO for sure), at some stage. When I see Mi-24 developed and incorporated as a flyable model, I will buy this title. I have (and I guess many others as well) have waited for so long for a flyable simulation of Mi-24 that for it not to be developed for this title would be totally disappointing for me. Hind allows for additional dimension to helicopter missions. Not only you can fly and blow stuff up with rocket pods, air fuel bombs etc but you can also deliver and extract troops, some supplies and evacuate wounded all by the same helicopter. I sincerely hope that together with Apache, Hind will be also developed. Anyway, here is hoping that the developers are listening. Thank you all for info. I will wait and see if any other info will (perhaps) arrive from the developers. Cheers.

 

 

 

[eurofor]

I'd also love to see a Hind in DCS!

[Kuky]

I think it would be REAL SAD if AH-64A "Apache" was done (again as per previous heli sims done by other developers) BUT NOT Mi-24 "Hind".

 

I think it's perfectly fine for ED to make one western bird after the russian Ka-50 and what more popular then the Apache :music_whistling: They are also planning to expandto strike aircraft and fighter jets as future parts of DCS

[swepain]

I think they should change the name to DCS Hind and fix this so this guy buys the sim! or it will just go bust! ^^

[Wags]

As has been stated, right now the Ka-50, AH-64A blk. 49A, and A-10A suite 2 are in development for DCS. Anything after that is too far out to make any definitive plans/announcements. While we also would like to include a Hind someday, there are also many other aircraft we would like to include too. As with selecting any aircraft to model, we will NEVER be able to make everyone happy.

[Avimimus]

Nor will public opinion be the only deciding factor :)

 

Still, its a beautiful, multi-role bird isn't it?

[junktrash]

NO HIND!

 

So disappointed to hear there will be no HIND.

Thought it was in the plans already, I'm not too happy right now

[Kuky]

So disappointed to hear there will be no HIND.

Thought it was in the plans already, I'm not too happy right now

 

oh poor you :cry: Seriously though... how can you people even think to "request" or "demand" from any developer something you personally would like to have. Don't you realise ED and any other company can do what ever they like and make any product they like if they chose to do so. Do you go and write to any other software developer (there are tons of them) that make other gaming software why they didn't make something you so dearly want? I mean this is just silly :music_whistling:

 

I go to shop and I see tons of games in there. If I like one (or think I would like) I go and buy it. Many times I've installed the game and uninstalled it straight away (or few days after) because it's just crap in my opinion. I did never though to go and complain to software developers asking why they made it like that and why didn't they do this and that. On few occasions I went and returned the game for a refund... most times I just felt like a sucker and left it like that. In the end I could have gone and returned any game if I wanted to, I just chose not to. But did I never even think to ask questions like this.

 

Alright, I'm gonna stop now... just had to get this off my chest... I just can't understand this at all... I think everyone should be happy that ED chose to develop a good study sim... so what if it's starting with a chopper... there will be more later on. What's important is they are making a very high quality sim series and we should be grateful for that.

[swepain]

Kuky is right..

And i dont think anyone will go buhu.,, my fav heli is not in here when the game is out! we will be to busy learning how to fly the darn thing! (atleast i will)

[VMFA117_Poko]

Let's take it this way: think about new DCS as resigning to other unit. :D

Military aviators can't choose which aircraft they want to fly. Only difference is that they are resigning to a proper units regarding their skills.

[BBQ]

what Poko said.

[- Piloto da Morte -]

So disappointed to hear there will be no HIND.

Thought it was in the plans already, I'm not too happy right now

 

man.... this is very hard do some aircraft that we want.... because of the realistic details and equipment, study, avionics system, realistic tests etc... this takes time.

What i want?? i want flyable HIND, apache, hokun, Mi-28, Su-33, falcon etc... and the others people want others aircraft...

You can imagine how is this big problem... someone want fly with yours preferred aircraft in DCS. i am happy with ka-50 and apache in DCS. If Wags decide include all aircraft that we want, we will get this Sim in 30/12/2050 .... '''shortly''' time to wait :music_whistling:.

[-sulan-]

I think it makes perfect sense for them to not start with the Hind because unlike the Ka-50 it's a twoseater so they'd have to work out how the player will interact with the other crewman, be it ai or coop.

Also the thing that's so cool about the Hind: that it can transport troops and do medevacs etc would take some time to get right, realistic infantry would be a must for example.. And I believe infantry was decided to be included quite recently(?) When the ka-50 was already pretty much developed...

 

A Hind at some point would be very nice though, but I'll be very happy with the Ka-50 (I actually payed them a huge sum of money to make my favourite helo :P )

[Avimimus]

-sulan- the AH-64 will be two seat anyway (and if we ever see the Mi-24, it will certainly be after the Apache is released). I also thought I'd just point out that the Mi-24 isn't a part of the official plan yet. That doesn't completely rule it out (here's to hoping).

 

oh poor you :cry: Seriously though... how can you people even think to "request" or "demand" from any developer something you personally would like to have.

 

Of course, Junktrash only stated that he was sad (reported an emotional state). Personally, I support the anti-whine movement, and I even think it out to be better and heavier equipped. But I also think it should really be aimed at the "I'm boycotting", "Some obscure Russian...", "x is a joke" types of speeches (if you get my point).

[Wags]

-sulan- the AH-64 will be two seat anyway (and if we ever see the Mi-24, it will certainly be after the Apache is released). I also thought I'd just point out that the Mi-24 isn't a part of the official plan yet. That doesn't completely rule it out (here's to hoping). .

 

Correct, we may well add the Hind as a DCS module at a later point. Again... right now we can only commit to the Apache and Hog given those are already in development.

[Glowing_Amraam]

.. right now we can only commit to the Apache and Hog given those are already in development.

 

And these 2 alone, brought up to the level of the KA-50....need i say more? :)

[amalahama]

And these 2 alone, brought up to the level of the KA-50....need i say more? :)

 

No, you don't need say more :) Has somebody some info about A-10 suite 2? I would like to know what kind of avionic equipment they carry.

 

Regards!!

[GGTharos]

Let's see ... look in here. :)

 

http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/apj/apj03/sum03/ireton.html

 

This information is older than 2003. This means Suite 2 may be getting more or less things than what's reported there.

[leafer]

GGTharos,

 

The link gave me page cannot display. Do you have another source?

 

thanks

[GGTharos]

I think there's another source at airpower, but it's not handy currently.

Here's the relevant content:

 

Upgrades

Today the A-10 is on the verge of receiving its second major improvement—Suite 2, a hardware and software upgrade that will incorporate a passive method of determining target altitude (previously, the pilot had to input estimated target altitude), a searchable database of steer points, and modern aiming symbologies. When Suite 2 is implemented, the A-10 will attain the capabilities of other Air Force aircraft of the late 1980s. Furthermore, a small alteration in the GAU-8 cannon’s symbology promises great changes in its employment. Typically, the cannon’s combat mix has consisted of five API rounds to one HEI round. Because each round has slightly different ballistics, HEI shot from high slant ranges, such as four or five nautical miles (NM), would hit short of the API-tuned sight. Suite 2 provides a ballistic solution for HEI as well as API so that pilots have two sights when combat mix is loaded, and they can choose to put either the API or the HEI on target when shooting from high slant ranges. The HEI will explode and throw significant amounts of shrapnel even when fired from a 5 NM slant range, thus giving A-10 pilots 1,150 grenades that they can deliver with precision—extremely effective on small bodies of enemy troops.

A third planned update, Suite 3, will incorporate two multifunction displays, improved hands on throttle and stick (HOTAS) controls, data-link capability, the ability to use IAMs, and an IR/charge-coupled device (CCD) laser designator (targeting pod). Although the A-10 has always had the ability to employ precision-guided munitions such as the AGM-65 Maverick and its 30 mm cannon, these improvements will allow it to engage a greater variety of targets with precision and near-precision weapons. The AGM-65 and GAU-8 are quite capable of destroying most tactical targets but are limited in their ability to engage many strategic targets. Having the flexibility to choose between AGM-65s, the cannon, IAMs, or Paveway-series laser-guided weapons will allow the A-10 to destroy any tactical and most strategic targets.

The IR/CCD laser-designator capability is especially important. The pilot can slave this device to a point of interest on the ground—usually by referencing target coordinates—and magnify it, as if by a telephoto lens. Because this can occur in either the IR or visual spectrum, allowing day, night, or diurnal crossover usage, the pilot can identify many targets at standoff ranges or altitudes. Something that looks like a truck to the naked eye from 15,000 feet will clearly be seen as a mobile launcher for a missile such as a Scud. The IR targeting pod would also allow identification of an inflatable decoy since it does not have the same black-body radiation characteristics as a metal target. Incorporating this targeting pod on the A-10 is key to successful target identification from survivable ranges and altitudes.

Laser-guided Paveway weapons are uniquely suited for CAS. The GBU-12, a 500-pound weapon with excellent accuracy, reliability, and maneuverability, can be dropped like a conventional Mk-82 and hit fairly close to the ballistic Mk-82 solution. This capability is important in the event the kit fails to seek the laser or the laser fails with the bomb in flight. In this case, the weapon does not glide or go “haywire” and will hit close to, if not on, the intended target. Typically, after the bomb is dropped and falls toward the target for 10 or 20 seconds, the laser fires for the last 10 seconds of flight, guiding the bomb directly into the target. It is capable of destroying tanks, armored personnel carriers (APC), light bridges, small buildings, and troops—both sheltered and in the open since the fuse can be set for slight delays. Another feature of this relatively light weapon is its maneuverability. It can easily be “moved” about 500 feet from its ballistic solution with the laser.18 The A-10 can drop the bomb on poor target coordinates or on a mobile target. The lasing aircraft (not necessarily the dropping aircraft) turns its laser on and either moves the bomb from the poor ballistic solution to the target or follows the moving target. The bomb adjusts its ballistic profile and flies into the target—something an IAM cannot do.

The data-link capability will enhance the Hog driver’s situational awareness. Ground and air threats, targets, and positions of friendly troops will display on one of two large, multifunctional color displays. A significant advantage of the data link is its compatibility with US Army systems and the fact that it can provide a tactical air control party (TACP) with the relative location of the A-10’s aiming point. If the A-10 is at 20,000 feet and out of sight of the troops providing positive control, the jet can data-link the position of its pipper (point of intended weapon impact) to the FAC or TACP with respect to the location of the friendly troops. This allows the TACPs to exercise positive control by always knowing the Hog’s axis of attack and where it is aiming.

[leafer]

Wow. That will be very impressive if ED do indeed model all the upgrades.

 

But how does switching between two sights work in real life? There is one HEI round per every five API rounds so, how does a pilot switch between the two sights when the rate of fire is so high?

 

edit

 

Never mind. it finally came to me. heh Pilot could switch to the appropriate sight prior to firing. duh.

[Weta43]

That all sounds great - & like a lot of fun to learn.

Hopefully we'll get something fixed wing & red to fly against / alongside it soon.

 

The next paragraph wasn't so much fun though:

 

The Problem

 

The problem, simply stated, is that the Hog is a pig. Each TF-34 motor has only 8,900 pounds of thrust. Even at production, people thought the engines were inadequate, and now that they have aged and been detuned, they are unsatisfactory, keeping the A-10 in the threat envelope for unreasonable amounts of time. Weapon-delivery passes take the A-10 from the relatively safe 15–20,000-feet arena down into the AAA and MANPADS arena. After delivering ordnance, the jet turns skyward and begins clawing for altitude. It is quite alarming to see how long it takes the A-10 to climb out of the threat envelope. On recovery from a 2 NM slant-range gunshot, pulling through the horizon at 7,000 feet at 400 knots with the throttles in maximum power, the aircraft can take four minutes and 45 seconds to reach 20,000 feet—out of most IR SAM threat envelopes.19 One should note that all A-10s lost in Desert Storm were assessed to have been taken by IR SAMs. Such poor performance will certainly decrease the A-10’s survivability in the next conflict. The poor motors also compel Hogs in hot-weather locations to take off with partial fuel loads, thus reducing range, loiter time, and war-fighting effectiveness if the aircraft does not go to a tanker to top off. Also, it is difficult to scramble and provide timely CAS if the jet has to tank first