Replacing Fulcrums...or not!

[Vekkinho]

Nato’s newest members hanging on to Russian jets

 

NATO’s newest Eastern European members are still relying on Russian fighter jets to form the backbone of their air forces. Some countries are unwilling to ‘upgrade’ their arsenal when refurbishing their Russian-made MiG jets seems a more economical option.

 

Read more here:

http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/25180

 

Looks like US built hardware became imperative for new NATO members!

With F-22 and F-35 wings just behind the corner I guess there's no better way of dealing the "old" technology!

[Pilotasso]

Its not iperative per se, rather that they do not comply with the standards of other countries. The migs wouldnt be able to work with allied aircraft.

[Vekkinho]

Its not iperative per se, rather that they do not comply with the standards of other countries. The migs wouldnt be able to work with allied aircraft.

 

I guess there's nothing wrong with latest Slovakian MiG-29 upgrade:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=29891

[GGTharos]

Hm, it would make little sense to buy F-16's or whatnot now, since EF-2000's are probably already available, and F-35's are just around the corner. Better keep them migs and pretend you have an airforce instead of buying already out-dated aircraft to replace even more out-dated aircraft.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Its not iperative per se, rather that they do not comply with the standards of other countries. The migs wouldnt be able to work with allied aircraft.

They don’t comply because they fly better and are more affordable? What is it on these airplanes that can not be updated to “NATO standards”?

[Vekkinho]

Hm, it would make little sense to buy F-16's or whatnot now, since EF-2000's are probably already available, and F-35's are just around the corner. Better keep them migs and pretend you have an airforce instead of buying already out-dated aircraft to replace even more out-dated aircraft.

 

I agree, MiG-29 upgrades that make it similary capable or in range with F-16 except...perhaps TFR, datalink and FLIR provisions are missing... are far cheaper solutions for having a combat ready 40+ birds. It's not just airframes and spare engines you'd need to replace 3 or 4 squadrons but almost everything, from shape of your shelters, ground equipment, pilot conversion trainings etc. Dollars and Euros easily pile up!

[GGTharos]

I wouldn't say it would become similarly capable to the F-16 without a radar replacement; but upgraded navigation would already be a /huge/ bonus, not to mention comms and some other things. There might be a lot of SA enhancements as well.

 

It's not like a fighter jet canbe scoffed at ... sure, you don't want to go head to head with an F-15, but then again, F-15's is no longer what these guys would expect to face, and you don't need F-22's to intercept cargo planes (or to shoot'em down :P )

[Jascha]

The eponymous Russian MiG-29 jet fighter still forms the basis of the NATO members’ air forces. Hungary has 26, Bulgaria has 20 and Poland hangs on to 72 of the jets.

 

What!? :megalol:

Some serious source... It's 31 or less (haven't checked the last updates).

 

Cheaper solution? That's an illusion mate...

[Groove]

I like RT`s footage, but they reports are very patriotic.

[Pilotasso]

They don’t comply because they fly better and are more affordable? What is it on these airplanes that can not be updated to “NATO standards”?

 

 

For example the capability to network with electronic systems, among them datalink and IFF systems and comms, smart weaponry etc, without wich they would probabaly be fired upon by their own allies. They do not fly "better", and are affordable for a reason.

[tflash]

For visual air policing the Mig-29 with R-73 is still a very valid option. I guess the most important reason it failed to become a true Mig-21 successor is in the lack of reliability and issues about spare parts. The flanker series has a way better reputation on this.

 

Mig has brilliant design but remains somewhat unfinished and buggy ... now I think about it: makes me think of another product I like very much :D

[59th_LeFty]

LOL tflash :D

 

Anyway, the source on our 26 jet is correct, but we 'officially' have 14 of them flyable. And the MiGs will be gone until the end of 2009, and the same year Gripens will do QRA along with the MiGs.

 

Those "Some countries" in the article 'are' only the Slovakian Air Force, and - as it is mentioned above - are NATO standardised.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

For example the capability to network with electronic systems, among them datalink and IFF systems and comms, smart weaponry etc, without wich they would probabaly be fired upon by their own allies. They do not fly "better", and are affordable for a reason.

All of that can be installed in MiG-29A. What smart weaponry are you talking about?

[nscode]

And interfacing eastern and western hardware is nothing new. Standing in the middle of two pacts, Yugoslav Army has been doing it for ages. US EWR radars and Russian SAMs, Ka-28 helicopters with US sensors and torpedos, domestic Orao with AGM-65..

 

Wonders can be done when there are no political boundaries. Today, MiG company will equip your aircraft with any peace of hardware you choose. NATO compatibility packages are ready made - primarily navigation, comms and IFF.

[Pilotasso]

hmmm I dont think we are talking about NATO standards. It has been done before, but not like this. ^^^^^^

 

Smart weapons capability (Laser guided, TV or IR bombs/missiles) is mandatory for frontline operations within NATO or be relegated to secondary roles.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Smart weapons capability (Laser guided, TV or IR bombs/missiles) is mandatory for frontline operations within NATO or be relegated to secondary roles.

So F-15C also does not comply to "NATO standars" then?

[Pilotasso]

How many NATO countries use them? 1

 

Saudi arabia, Japan, Korea, Israel are the other operators, none of them NATO.

If You ask me JTIDS datalink, NCTR, TWS 6 on 6 (or 8 on 8 ) capability, AMRAAM and advanced IFF sounds pretty damn smart to me. :)

None of wich finds its way into any Mig-29.

 

Plus we are talking about Migs not F-15's.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

How many NATO countries use them? 1

 

Saudi arabia, Japan, Korea, Israel are the other operators, none of them NATO.

If You ask me JTIDS datalink, NCTR, TWS 6 on 6 (or 8 on 8 ) capability, AMRAAM and advanced IFF sounds pretty damn smart to me. :)

None of wich finds its way into any Mig-29.

 

Plus we are talking about Migs not F-15's.

I rest my case. :smilewink:

[RedTiger]

So F-15C also does not comply to "NATO standars" then?

 

You're original question is valid, but I wonder what exactly your trying to prove with that line of questioning. It just looks silly. ;)

 

So, I'll rephrase the question since I want to know too; whats stops someone from scooping out all the Russian guts and putting in NATO-friendly ones? What about adding FLIR and laser-guided bombs? Cost? Not worth it to add all that to an air frame not originally intended to handle it?

[nscode]

They don't need it? They don't want it? (soorryyyy can't fight your stupid war with you.. all we've got are these poor old migs with no "smart" thingis :( ;) )

[GGTharos]

I think, since you have to rewire a lot of stuff inside, it might not be worth the cost for such a major upgrade on an old airframe when you're probably expecting to buy new aircraft.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

You're original question is valid, but I wonder what exactly your trying to prove with that line of questioning. It just looks silly. ;)

According to Pilotasso's definition, F-15C does not comply to NATO standards.

 

I rest my case (one more time). :)

[mvsgas]

Nato’s newest members hanging on to Russian jets

 

NATO’s newest Eastern European members are still relying on Russian fighter jets to form the backbone of their air forces. Some countries are unwilling to ‘upgrade’ their arsenal when refurbishing their Russian-made MiG jets seems a more economical option.

 

Read more here:

http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/25180

 

Looks like US built hardware became imperative for new NATO members!

With F-22 and F-35 wings just behind the corner I guess there's no better way of dealing the "old" technology!

 

It is probably cheaper for some countries ( if not all) to maintain the original aircraft and to upgrade them rather than to buy different airframes. You could be looking at maybe F-16s ( or any other aircraft) with better equipment but may be pre-used and may not have many hours left on the airframe, that adds a lot of cost. Not to mention spare parts supply, training, facilities, equipment and all the other things associated with changing airframes. I think upgrading old airframes makes more since but you can only upgraded so much. You can not just add equipment, you have to add all the associated wiring, account for any extra wiring or equipment in to the weight and balance of the aircraft. You nay have to cut fuel loads etc. to add some equipment. I believe old Mig-29, Mig-21, Mig-23 etc. could be upgraded, but only to a certain point before they to get to expensive.

[nscode]

But what ever you do, don't do what Hungary did and upgrade your Su-22 fleet at a million $ each.... and retire it after 6 months :|

[Jascha]

But what ever you do, don't do what Hungary did and upgrade your Su-22 fleet at a million $ each.... and retire it after 6 months :|

 

???

 

Source?