What size extension for most realism?

[Bog9y]

Hi guys,

 

Looking to upgrade from a TM warthog stick to a Virpil Mongoose base with a TM F18 grip. 

 

I intend to fly the Harrier, F18 and eventually A10 with it. My question is, what size extension would give me the most realistic  stick displacement (throw?)?   For example, if the real F18 or AV8B stick displaces 30 cms fwd/aft, how long of an extension would I need to replicate this?

 

I tried finding the real stick displacement of these aircraft but no luck. Does anybody know? 

[Brun]

Will you be able to mount it in a suitable position? Most chairs will get in the way of a realistic stick setup.

[Bog9y]

I was gonna use a table mount.  The long virpil one to be exact. 

[Brun]

I've a feeling that might result in the stick being somewhere in front of your face.

 

Edit: That's an exaggeration, but I'm sure it would be way too high. My Mongoose base is roughly level with the top of my thighs, and I use a 50mm extension with the Hornet grip. It's far less than a realistic throw, but it's much more important that the stick's in the most comfortable position.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Brun

[Mr_sukebe]

I use the Virpil 20cm if that helps and rather like it.

[Lynchsl62]

I have both the Virpil Mongoose CM2 with 20 extension and the VKB Gunfighter III with 20 cm extension on the standard MonsterTech Desk Mount. Realistically both put the grip too high for extended use, though between the two the VKB is the better of the two as the base sits lower due to the size of the base and the connector is more compact. The Virpil base is massive and the mounting means that the chair needs to be lowered so as to access the pedals. The Virpil allows for compatibility with TM and more importantly with RealSimulator

 

[Bog9y]

Interesting to see the pictures. Thanks for that. 

 

I saw monstertech do a long version of the desk mount which should give you a drop of 38 cm (i think?), vs the 22 cms (if I read their website correctly?) of the regular mount. Would a 38 cm drop put the stick at the right height? 

 

The issue of rudder pedals is something that worries me because I have those cheap TM pedals, they are notoriously narrow.  

[Lynchsl62]

The trouble with the longer desk mount is that the height of the chair becomes an issue - or the chair is too far back. I have not tried the 38 cm extension as I have committed to the standard desk mount. I would say that a 10 cm extension on the standard monster tech is ideal, this is the configuration for the FSSB and the Realsimulator F18 grip - possibly the best combination for flying FBW jets, don't look at the cost though. use the VKB for piston engine and 1st gen jets and the Virpil for the 2nd/3rd gen jets.

 

The silver extension is by Sahaj extension - custom made for the Realsimulator FSSB and F18 Grip

 

 

[Bog9y]

Wow...I bet that setup cost a few $$$$! 

 

If you use the long desk mount (38 cm drop) with a 20cm extension, wouldn't that put the stick in the correct position to grip it comfortably? But are you saying that whilst that may be true, in order to use the stick properly your chair would get in the way or you would need to move it back too far? Just want to make sure I understand what issues may arise. 

 

If you have time, could you measure how far the stick moves fwd/aft & left/right with the Virpil CM2 base and a 20 cm extension? I could then figure out if that would work for me 

[Bog9y]

21 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said:

I use the Virpil 20cm if that helps and rather like it.

Mr Sukebe, which mount do you use and does your chair need to be modified in any way? Also, are you able to use your rudders easily?

23 hours ago, Brun said:

Will you be able to mount it in a suitable position? Most chairs will get in the way of a realistic stick setup.

I was thinking of a table mount, the long one from Virpil.  

[Lynchsl62]

Do not tell the better half she will have words for sure....

 

The Virpil CM2 base with 20 cm extension moves approx 4.5" from center in the X and Y direction

 

Yes the issue with the longer desk mount is the clash with the chair as the standard height for a desk is approx 72 cm, so with a 38 cm desk mount your charir can only be 34cm or 14" from the floor - that is not comfortable for me

[Bog9y]

1 minute ago, Lynchsl62 said:

Do not tell the better half she will have words for sure....

 

The Virpil CM2 base with 20 cm extension moves approx 4.5" from center in the X and Y direction

 

Yes the issue with the longer desk mount is the clash with the chair as the standard height for a desk is approx 72 cm, so with a 38 cm desk mount your charir can only be 34cm or 14" from the floor - that is not comfortable for me

Haha, man, after 7 years of marriage I have only just caught on to the wonderful life of not talking about costs of hobbies!  Honesty isn't met with enthousiasm very often. 

 

Cool, thanks for those figures. I'll have some measuring to do. 

[AW139]

7 hours ago, Lynchsl62 said:

Do not tell the better half she will have words for sure....

 

The Virpil CM2 base with 20 cm extension moves approx 4.5" from center in the X and Y direction

 

Yes the issue with the longer desk mount is the clash with the chair as the standard height for a desk is approx 72 cm, so with a 38 cm desk mount your charir can only be 34cm or 14" from the floor - that is not comfortable for me

Depending on the seat size of the chair, there is no reason why you can't have the stick base just below the seat, and the extension extend above it.  It's helpful to have a curved extension like the VKB 200mm extension though.  I have this setup in my monstertech sim rig, but there is no reason you can't have a similar geometry with the desk mount and office chair.

[Mr_sukebe]

16 hours ago, Bbow said:

Mr Sukebe, which mount do you use and does your chair need to be modified in any way? Also, are you able to use your rudders easily?

I was thinking of a table mount, the long one from Virpil.  

I built my mount from scratch.

The seat is from an old MX5 and the frame is made from a bunch of 8cm (3”) wooden fence posts, cut to length and then bolted together.  If you imagine playing jenga at a bigger size, you’ll understand the build.  
As such, the positioning of the pedals and HOTAS was all custom and made to fit exactly how I wanted.  It’s probably not quite as rigid as say a monstertech build, it’s rather crap looking and it’s very heavy. For all that, it certainly feels very solid, the seat is very comfortable and it was very cheap when compared to commercially sold rigs.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Mr_sukebe

[Dustoff74]

Another point to consider: I have the long s-curved Virpil extension in conjunction with the CM2 Base and MT-50 CM2 stick. I installed it on a modified Obutto SimPit with the stick at a comfortable height, so I could rest my arm on my leg. All was perfect until I realized, that I don’t have full aileron control when pulling, because my legs get in the way.. 

[Bog9y]

Thanks for your inputs guys. I've decided to mount the stick on a heavy box on the floor. That way I can move it in the right position, use an extension length that's suitable and not pay 90 euros for a long Virpil desk mount.  I've ordered a 15 cm extension and the Hornet grip to try out with the TM warthog base to start with. Once I'm happy with that I'll buy a Virpil base. I may need to cut an opening into the chair near the crotch area to allow the stick go move back enough. I think this is the best solution for what I want.  

[admiki]

@Bbowthis might help

https://forum.virpil.com/index.php?/topic/650-размеры-и-компоновка-устройств-virpil-controls/

 

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Edited December 11, 2020 by admiki

[Bog9y]

31 minutes ago, admiki said:

@Bbowthis might help

https://forum.virpil.com/index.php?/topic/650-размеры-и-компоновка-устройств-virpil-controls/

 

Page 3

 

Thanks admiki!

 

I did find that thread already and figured out it wont really work for my setup. A floor mount is what I'm gonna go for. Far easier and cheaper. Going to cut a hole in the chair too if necessary.