bbrz Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 On 12/25/2020 at 8:29 AM, KalAbaddon said: I do not have any pics of a speed brake strike (could of sworn I did), but I got some of a stabilator strike on landing! Might have happened during a landing like this one.... Aviator Anil Chopra auf Twitter: "They were lucky to survive of that tail strike in rainy day and wet RWY #F16 https://t.co/dp44jfVWcE @fighterpics" / Twitter i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalAbaddon Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 iirc it was on a clean weather day, just a bad landing. Happened at Shaw AFB ~2008 give or take a couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruddy122 Posted December 27, 2020 Author Share Posted December 27, 2020 The C-17 has the flaps blown by the jet enginesYou need more thrust to give you more air for the flapsIf you reduce thrust the air for the flaps is not there and your plane flies like a paperweightThe T-1 and KC-10 doesn’t have that problem cause you don’t need jet thrust to make the Flaps more effective you can reduce thrust without affecting the wingYou shoot for a speed from the checklist which is 1.3VsI used to use 1.3Vs+5The KC-10 min runway is 7000 FTSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] LUCKY:pilotfly::joystick: Computer Specs CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 6-Core 3.4 GHz| GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1660 6Gb | RAM: 32 GB DDR4 @ 3000 MHz | OS: Win 10 64 bit | HD: 500 Gb SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruddy122 Posted December 27, 2020 Author Share Posted December 27, 2020 Spangdahlem Vipers used to take out approach lightsThe reason why is Spangs runway is on the top of a hill so you can go below the airfield if there is bad weather Guys have done it in good weatherSpang is a challenging airportSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] LUCKY:pilotfly::joystick: Computer Specs CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 6-Core 3.4 GHz| GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1660 6Gb | RAM: 32 GB DDR4 @ 3000 MHz | OS: Win 10 64 bit | HD: 500 Gb SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrz Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 (edited) 44 minutes ago, ruddy122 said: The C-17 has the flaps blown by the jet engines If you reduce thrust the air for the flaps is not there and your plane flies like a paperweight The T-1 and KC-10 doesn’t have that problem cause you don’t need jet thrust to make the Flaps more effective you can reduce thrust without affecting the wing The reason why the C-17 uses increased thrust is due to the fact that their pilots apparently don't flare and thrust increase is the only way to reduce the ROD. You could theoretically land e.g. a 767 that way as well. In fact there are pilots who use a thrust increase during the flare with 'conventional' jets. I'd still like to know why you are stating that the T-1 and KC-10 are landing in a stalled condition. Edited December 27, 2020 by bbrz i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruddy122 Posted December 27, 2020 Author Share Posted December 27, 2020 You flare throttles idle and around 8 deg nose upThat’s how I used to fly the 10Aero brake don’t do it use your wing TRs instead Number 2 is tough to get at OutstationsAccording to Semper Viper the Viper wants to keep flying around 105 knotsThat’s why Viper Drivers wants to fly it down to keep it on the groundWay back when the First F-16 was gonna do a high speed taxi test but the thing got off the groundLuckily a Test Pilot was at the controls and did a quick pattern and Full StopSent from my iPhone using TapatalkBasically to land the 10Spoilers are armedThey let go once the Mains touch if not you’ll never land on the first 3000 ft of runwayYou do landing attitude demos with the Spoilers DisarmedSo if you touch you don’t accidentally activate the spoilersSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] LUCKY:pilotfly::joystick: Computer Specs CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 6-Core 3.4 GHz| GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1660 6Gb | RAM: 32 GB DDR4 @ 3000 MHz | OS: Win 10 64 bit | HD: 500 Gb SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruddy122 Posted December 27, 2020 Author Share Posted December 27, 2020 I’m finally landing the ViperFoghornF16 technique of landing the viper works for meAlso use the Wheel Brake as a Tap or an Axis also worksKeep in mind under wet conditions you need more runway why RCR23 vs RCR10 you have less grip when the runway is wetEven the best pilots can get hurtA Thunderbirds pilot was hurt in Dayton when a freak wind blew the plane off the runway while landing the viperSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] LUCKY:pilotfly::joystick: Computer Specs CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 6-Core 3.4 GHz| GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1660 6Gb | RAM: 32 GB DDR4 @ 3000 MHz | OS: Win 10 64 bit | HD: 500 Gb SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruddy122 Posted December 28, 2020 Author Share Posted December 28, 2020 Hold On to your hats the USAF taught flyers like me Control & PerformanceAFI 11-217 goes into great detail but the ADI is extremely importantSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] LUCKY:pilotfly::joystick: Computer Specs CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 6-Core 3.4 GHz| GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1660 6Gb | RAM: 32 GB DDR4 @ 3000 MHz | OS: Win 10 64 bit | HD: 500 Gb SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slug72 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 On 12/27/2020 at 9:53 PM, ruddy122 said: Way back when the First F-16 was gonna do a high speed taxi test but the thing got off the ground Luckily a Test Pilot was at the controls and did a quick pattern and Full Stop "I just powered it up, let go of the controls, and let it fly away." The Viper always wants to fly. Get the AOA/flare/idle wrong and she'll happily balloon along the runway under ground effect until Hell freezes over. We've all been there. i9-9900K @5GHz, Z390 Aorus Pro, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz, EVGA RTX 2080Ti FTW3 Ultra, Seasonic Focus+ Platinum 850W PSU, TM Warthog HOTAS, CH Pro pedals, 2x MFD's, MT deskmounts, Asus 32" 1440p display, EDTracker Pro Wireless, HP Reverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorVixen Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 (edited) The trick is to get proficient at aerobraking because thats the best brakes there are for the f16. basically keep pulling up the nose and maintain 13 degrees during the first fase of the landing, as you slow down you need to increase the pull, when its no longer possible to keep the nosewheel up start using the brakes (fase2), i keep pulling on the stick to maximize drag on surfaces. The lighter you are the easier it is to land. flying at 105 knots is way too low, the plane becomes too unresponsive. come in with speedbrakes out at about 160-180 knots, cut the throttle when you are close to the runway, and focus keep that cross at 13 degrees, and using ailerons to stay on the runway. Also, i think learning to land at 105 knots is dangerous, I would stick to landing the viper the same way it lands in real life, once you feel it it will work out. She lands very elegant, but it's tricky. Edited December 29, 2020 by DoctorVixen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruddy122 Posted December 29, 2020 Author Share Posted December 29, 2020 The plane still flies at 105I use Foghorns gouge as a cross check 140 + 4 For Each 1000 lbs of fuelFor Example if your fuel weight is 5000 the lowest you should get is 160140 + 20 (4*5) = 160Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] LUCKY:pilotfly::joystick: Computer Specs CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 6-Core 3.4 GHz| GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1660 6Gb | RAM: 32 GB DDR4 @ 3000 MHz | OS: Win 10 64 bit | HD: 500 Gb SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano87 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 3 hours ago, ruddy122 said: I use Foghorns gouge as a cross check 140 + 4 For Each 1000 lbs of fuel For Example if your fuel weight is 5000 the lowest you should get is 160 140 + 20 (4*5) = 160 Or just fly AoA and it sorts it all out for you with no math required. 1 Proud owner of: PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring. My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrz Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) Ruddy122 mentioned that he's using the formula just to crosscheck, which is a good idea and should be common practise IMO. Edited December 30, 2020 by bbrz i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano87 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, bbrz said: Ruddy122 mentioned that he's using the formula just to crosscheck, which is a good idea and should be common practise IMO. Yeah, good point. Edited December 30, 2020 by Deano87 Proud owner of: PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring. My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruddy122 Posted January 1, 2021 Author Share Posted January 1, 2021 I could land the viper safely at Batumi with 1000 ft to 500 ft to spareNow if my wingman doesn’t shoot me downReminds me of Dos Gringos Two’s Blind and the Wingman SongSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] LUCKY:pilotfly::joystick: Computer Specs CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 6-Core 3.4 GHz| GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1660 6Gb | RAM: 32 GB DDR4 @ 3000 MHz | OS: Win 10 64 bit | HD: 500 Gb SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrz Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 (edited) Without knowing the weight/approach speed, this doesn't mean a lot... Edited January 1, 2021 by bbrz i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruddy122 Posted January 1, 2021 Author Share Posted January 1, 2021 The key is 5-6000 lbs of fuelApproach around 170 or lessAim for threshold and land within first 500 ft of Runway and 80% brakes You can land in any 8000 ft fieldSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] LUCKY:pilotfly::joystick: Computer Specs CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 6-Core 3.4 GHz| GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1660 6Gb | RAM: 32 GB DDR4 @ 3000 MHz | OS: Win 10 64 bit | HD: 500 Gb SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruddy122 Posted January 2, 2021 Author Share Posted January 2, 2021 Even though I like both the Viper and the Hornet I like the Viper even moreLess to Memorize than the Hornet in Air to Air and more challenging to land right nowLanding on the boat is hard enough but landing in an FSU (Former Soviet Union) airfield is challenging enough in the ViperOnce the Viper has JDAMS and JSOW it’ll be a force to reckon not only is it deadly now but more deadly in the futureSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] LUCKY:pilotfly::joystick: Computer Specs CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 6-Core 3.4 GHz| GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1660 6Gb | RAM: 32 GB DDR4 @ 3000 MHz | OS: Win 10 64 bit | HD: 500 Gb SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruddy122 Posted January 4, 2021 Author Share Posted January 4, 2021 The key for me is fuel If your fuel is less than 4000 lbs you can land safely in Kobuleti and Batumi no problemSenaki I haven’t figured out yet but I’m thinking 3000 or less to land in a7500 ft stripYou have to Aerobrake and Don’t lock the Wheel BrakesThe viper you have to concentrate until it stopped don’t be complacent or the plane will bite youSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] LUCKY:pilotfly::joystick: Computer Specs CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 6-Core 3.4 GHz| GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1660 6Gb | RAM: 32 GB DDR4 @ 3000 MHz | OS: Win 10 64 bit | HD: 500 Gb SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoghornF16 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 (edited) On 12/26/2020 at 11:41 PM, bbrz said: I'm curious where these misleading statements come from that you land a KC-10, T-1A (or any other jet) in a stalled condtion. When using a normal approach speed and sink rate you can land the C-17 like every jet without the need to increase thrust. Why would a F-16 student pilot wait for the wing to stall since he knows that the stall AoA is well above any touchdown AoA? I've noticed this on other forums that the term 'stalled' is being used a lot, mainly (or even exclusively) by US pilots, when it's about landing/touchdown without referring to an actual aerodynamic stall. "Why would an F-16 student pilot wait for the wing to stall since he knows that the stall AoA is well above any touchdown AoA?" Well, because the F-16 student just got done flying 300-hours worth of training in the T-38, which (when done correctly) does stall at touchdown, believe me. And while the student will know... academically, at zero altitude and zero knots... that the AoA Limit is well above the landing AoA, when they are crossing the threshold for the first time in the F-16 that's not what they remember. "Hands-of-the-Habit-Pattern" take over, because everything else they've done today in their first Viper sortie flies exactly like the T-38. So they try to land it like a T-38. They've had academics on it. The IP prior to the sortie has briefed it until he's blue in the face. But they still do it, because human nature dictates they can't help but do anything else. It provides the IPs an endless source of humor, and to the students' credit by the second attempt they have it wired tight. After all... it is called "training". If they could do it right on the first attempt, we'd call it "proficiency" Edited January 5, 2021 by FoghornF16 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrz Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 (edited) Thanx for taking time for the detailed explanation. Makes perfect sense Edited January 6, 2021 by bbrz i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano87 Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 Foghorn, Does the real aircraft hold an aerobrake attitude by itself once you've got it to where you want it? Currently in the sim we need to keep increasing pitch input to hold the correct aerobraking AoA, But I've heard from various places that the real jet kinda stays where you put it in that ragard, any input on the matter? 1 Proud owner of: PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring. My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donglr Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 The Grim Reapers tried to answer the question if aerobraking helps. Answer is no, going directly to wheel brakes makes for a shorter landing. This is in the DCS universe obviously and real world aero braking technique is for reducing wheel brake wear, but if you struggle to get the bird stopped maybe this is something to consider. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqI8uvbBKss&list=PL3kOAM2N1YJcXK052YLROS5fo4m4lkrpG&index=5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoghornF16 Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 6 hours ago, Deano87 said: Foghorn, Does the real aircraft hold an aerobrake attitude by itself once you've got it to where you want it? Currently in the sim we need to keep increasing pitch input to hold the correct aerobraking AoA, But I've heard from various places that the real jet kinda stays where you put it in that ragard, any input on the matter? Deano87, Nope, you have to hold the nose up in that attitude with increasing back-stick pressure as the airspeed rolls off. The nose will naturally drop as you slow around 100 KCAS (with you holding full aft stick like you are trying to rip the stick outta the dash) as the stabilators lose authority and depending on landing weight... a really light jet (air-to-air config and almost outta gas) I've seen the nose stay up until 88-ish, 87-ish KCAS. 3 hours ago, Donglr said: The Grim Reapers tried to answer the question if aerobraking helps. Answer is no, going directly to wheel brakes makes for a shorter landing. This is in the DCS universe obviously and real world aero braking technique is for reducing wheel brake wear, but if you struggle to get the bird stopped maybe this is something to consider. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqI8uvbBKss&list=PL3kOAM2N1YJcXK052YLROS5fo4m4lkrpG&index=5 Donglr, Again, I can't attest to the accuracy of DCS's simulation of the universe. Real-world, aerobraking is NOT to save the wheelbrakes. Per T.O. 1F-16CM-1, Aerobraking is more effective (e.g. reduces speed faster) than wheelbraking above 100 KCAS. Once the nose is down, FULL aft stick (so the stabs are in full deflection to act like giant speedbrakes) and full speedbrake (hold the switch against the springed 'open' position to override to the 60-deg open position) and MODERATE wheelbraking until below 70 KCAS, where the P-pages in the -1 say you can honk on the brakes as hard as you want without fear of heating them up excessively. If DCS doesn't sim that correctly, then obviously do that instead... land and jump on the binders immediately. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano87 Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 1 minute ago, FoghornF16 said: If DCS doesn't sim that correctly, then obviously do that instead... land and jump on the binders immediately. Nahh... aerobraking is more fun specially in a crosswind. Thanks for you input about holding the right AoA. Proud owner of: PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring. My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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