AV-8B training missions are outstanding. Why not in every module?

[CommandT]

Am I right in saying the AV-8B is the only module in DCS to have such amazing/ realistic/ interactive training missions? I'm a bit bewildered why every module is not like this. Genuinely brilliant content and gets you up to speed on stuff in a super engaging and fun and quite realistic fashion.  

Coming from the F-18 which I thought was really tedious to learn, having to find lots of youtube tutorials for various things, the AV-8B is such a great experience to learn. The voice overs and explanations and all the various sub-missions for exercises are just awesome. Why isn't this a standard for every module? Has ED considered doing this for their own modules? 

I'm aware ED has their own training missions. But not like this. At least not that I've seen in the F-5 or F-18. And definitely not covering as many aspects of operation. 

[M1Combat]

Well...  There's a lot at play here.

 

First is that the F/A-18 isn't finished...  so it very well might have super good training missions when it's finished.  I'm not sure.  I don't watch the to-do list like a hawk :).  Also...  the AV8 isn't made by Eagle Dynamics...  So you have different companies with different priorities and stuff as well.

 

Also...  Take a look at the JF-17...  As I recall there are some VERY well done training missions for that.  they may be done by the community but I can't recall.

[Rudel_chw]

4 hours ago, CommandT said:

Am I right in saying the AV-8B is the only module in DCS to have such amazing/ realistic/ interactive training missions? 

You are not right ... the Mirage 2000 and the Mig-19 have the same high standard of training mission.

 

the reason is because good mission editing is a bit of an art form, where the end result depend as much on the creativity of the mission designer, as on his technical knowledge of dcs trigger system. The training of these three modules was edited by @baltic_dragon .. who in my opinion is one of the most creative mission designers for dcs world, and razbam did a great move in contracting him to do the training, its one of the very best features of razbam 

[CommandT]

2 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

You are not right ... the Mirage 2000 and the Mig-19 have the same high standard of training mission.

 

the reason is because good mission editing is a bit of an art form, where the end result depend as much on the creativity of the mission designer, as on his technical knowledge of dcs trigger system. The training of these three modules was edited by @baltic_dragon .. who in my opinion is one of the most creative mission designers for dcs world, and razbam did a great move in contracting him to do the training, its one of the very best features of razbam 

Huh, didn't realise that these sort of training missions exist for the Mirage and the MiG-19 too. That's good to know. Definitely ads to the experience and a good selling point. 

What surprises me a bit is that surely nobody knows the mission editor better than ED themselves, so surely they should have someone talented like BD working for them making good content for their own modules? Both training and proper missions. My absolute biggest gripe with DCS not counting the old legacy engine/ poor AI/ lack of a weather engine (soon to be crossed off my list) is the total lack of well though through missions and campaigns for their modules. Whilst it's great that talented folk outside of ED are taking the time to create content I still think you should be paying for a bit more than just a plane with a manual. I know they do offer some training/ missions out of the box but it's really nothing to shout about. Certainly not BD level. 

[imacken]

The state of Training Missions in DCS is one of my main frustrations.  The quality of the presentation technique, the depth of information supplied, the coverage of the capabilities of the module, etc. etc. vary hugely from module to module. Even within the same module, e.g. Viper.

TMs are potentially the perfect tool - along with videos and manuals - for new pilots to learn modules.  The interaction aspect is invaluable, compared to videos and manuals.  I mean who would ever consider sitting their driving test purely from looking at online videos and reading the Highway Code? There is no substitute for having actual lessons with an instructor.

There are very high quality TMs - Harrier, Mirage, some Hornet, A-10C (albeit with some bugs due to their age), some Viper.

Medium quality - Viggen, F-5E, Spit, F-14, etc.

Poor quality - some Viper, JF-17 (not counting Rudel_chw's excellent independent ones), Huey (1 cold start and 1 weapons).

There are all sorts of issues in some missions with:

- mouse click issues, right-click when should be left, etc.

- text disappearing before it can even be read.

- clicking too soon on a button throws out the sequence.

- not being updated.

- buttons in different places

- sometimes asked to 'press spacebar to continue' (good), other times text disappears in a few seconds and the new pilot hasn't got a clue what was asked, etc.

Now, you could say, some of this is down to missions being old, or modules being in EA.  Although that may be true, it's not an excuse.

Let me give you 2 recent examples.

Firstly, the 'new' module A-10C II has TMs that, AFAICS, are just the original A-10C ones wiht the aircraft being replaced in ME.  Now, that might be OK, except that these older missions are riddled with mouse click issues, and panels not being where they should be and changes to the HOTAS controls, etc.  Add to that, ED recently stated in a patch note, that these missions had been improved, but I can't see it.  Ironically, the MAV TM which the pilot cannot progress through due to the MFD having changed and the ability to swap MFDs having gone in the Mk II, has been fixed in the original A-10C mission, but not in the A-10C II!

Secondly, the Viper.  Wags did really good, up-to-ED-standard TMs initially, the first 2 or 3, but after that there has been a succession of different voices/instructors in missions that are not really educational at all for the new pilot.  They are basically 'here's your task, do it', with very little instruction.

Now, whenever this kind of comment is posted, there is always the 'that's DCS get used to it' type reply. Well, the answer to that is we shouldn't have to.

I just feel that this aspect of DCS is very important for new users, and they should expect a more consistent, bug-free, structured approach to this valuable DCS asset.

 

 

[CommandT]

100% agree with the above. Makes the learning experience super enjoyable and not tedious like some modules. I think the same could be said about the lack of really good combat missions that modules come with. DCS really does feel like a sand box a lot of the time - here's an amazing plane, an amazing map and a mission editor... now go and make your own mission and learn it all yourself. You'd have thought that having excellent flying content is the whole point of having the amazing plane in the first place! I really hope more attention starts getting paid to this.