AV-8B Handling in DCS Vs in Real Life... similar?

[CommandT]

Hi folks, I'm new to the AV-8B so maybe it's just me but does anyone else find that 2 units nose down trim for takeoff - any takeoff - vertical, short, whatever, seem like it's too much nose down trim? it always seems to really want to pitch down after liftoff and I just ending up trimming up back to 00. Is it supposed to be this way? 

Another thing I just noticed after watching the following HUD footage of a Harrier landing onto a Carrier is that it seems much more responsive in pitch when in the hover? The DCS Harrier seems to have a really slow reaction to any pitch input and really feels statically unstable more than the one in the video? I get that in real life it's also unstable but I mean in comparison to the video below it looks more unstable than the real thing perhaps? 
 

Any real Harrier pilots around here that have tried our DCS one? 
 

Edited December 24, 2020 by CommandT

[Ramsay]

I think in DCS, 2° down = 2.0 - 2.99°, I usually set 2° nose down on the stab (Engine Ind. Panel) and then nudge it back until it reads  1° down i.e. 1.7 - 1.9° nose down.

 

I'm not sure if it's true to life, as AFAIK IRL the 2° nose down trim is to prevent/reduce engine FOD, not trim for take-off as would be the case in the L-39, etc.

[CommandT]

1 hour ago, Ramsay said:

I think in DCS, 2° down = 2.0 - 2.99°, I usually set 2° nose down on the stab (Engine Ind. Panel) and then nudge it back until it reads  1° down i.e. 1.7 - 1.9° nose down.

 

I'm not sure if it's true to life, as AFAIK IRL the 2° nose down trim is to prevent/reduce engine FOD, not trim for take-off as would be the case in the L-39, etc.

According to the training missions and guides it's 4deg nose down or taxi and 2deg nose down for takeoff. I set 1.9 like you also but it's still way too much nose down I feel. 

[DimSim]

On 12/24/2020 at 6:52 AM, CommandT said:

 I get that in real life it's also unstable but I mean in comparison to the video below it looks more unstable than the real thing perhaps? 

Two Harrier aircraft technicians reported that the game appears less stable than the real aircraft, after having observed many hundreds of vertical take offs and landings. I don't have link but one was in the DCS forums.  It's also possible sensitivity relates to controls vs the flight model.

Edited December 24, 2020 by DimSim

[Dr Zaius]

I watched a harrier documentry on YT the other night, one of our best Royal Navy / RAF pilots said the aircraft itself wasn't difficult to fly (including STOVL) but if you got it a little bit wrong then it can get very wrong very quickly - one of the things mentioned was control reversal when flying backwards over a given speed, he almost had a crash because of that little issue.

 

Great vid btw

Edited December 25, 2020 by Dr Zaius

[SGT Coyle]

I've been spending more time doing VLs and of the opinion that control sensitivity, including throttle, is more my issue to be ironed out.  I always hate this part.  I'm trash with making the adjustments.  It's like sanding drywall.  I never know when I'm done until I've sanded too much.

Other than my failings, I think it handles great.

[CommandT]

I mean I can get it to fly pretty well and land bang on where I want. I'm just saying the pitch control in hover looks to be too sluggish compared to the HUD footage above. 

[Harry.R]

The one in the vid is being flown at 30 knots when next to the ship and transitioning across the deck -  so not hovering but travelling at the same speed as the ship. Important to note that the pitch is being controlled by the engine and not the conventional control surfaces in slow flight, so the two reaction jets, one in the front and one in the back end push the nose/tail up.

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Harry.R

[Dr Zaius]

Does anyone else think the pilot hit the deck a little on the hard side?

[CommandT]

1 hour ago, Harry.R said:

The one in the vid is being flown at 30 knots when next to the ship and transitioning across the deck -  so not hovering but travelling at the same speed as the ship. Important to note that the pitch is being controlled by the engine and not the conventional control surfaces in slow flight, so the two reaction jets, one in the front and one in the back end push the nose/tail up.

 

 

This is true but I was comparing to doing the same in DCS landing on the Tarawa and my opinion remains unchanged about the pitch being maybe a little bit more sluggish and less stable than what it seems like in the video. 

32 minutes ago, Dr Zaius said:

Does anyone else think the pilot hit the deck a little on the hard side?

It seems pretty common for them to hit the deck hard or even bounce on landing after watching a lots of youtube vids. Seems like they really want a very positive touch down. Almost a hard touch down it seems!

[SGT Coyle]

2 hours ago, Dr Zaius said:

Does anyone else think the pilot hit the deck a little on the hard side?

What?  And you can do better? 

Nah...   I think the deck hit him harder than he hit the deck.

 

[CommandT]

Just found an explanation why they "drop" the plane onto the ground during a vertical landing. Watch from 05:00 
 

 

[Dr Zaius]

7 hours ago, CommandT said:

Just found an explanation why they "drop" the plane onto the ground during a vertical landing. Watch from 05:00 
 

 

Hey good find, landing gear must be fairly beefy to handle all these 'drops'

Edited December 25, 2020 by Dr Zaius

[Bog9y]

I agree with the OP. -2 degrees ND trim seems too much for STOs, I always get a nose down pitch as soon as I lift off.  I rotate the nozzle exactly at the VRST computer NRAS speed with the correct NZL stop.  Having the trim at 0 works much better. I think it's just the way the a/c is modeled. If you think it's twitchy during a normal VL try doing it with the SAAAHS switched off! Lots of fun doing that.