Investigation of stability with client loads over 50

[Fudd]

I wanted to get everyone’s opinion, even those who dont know what they’re talking about.

 

Recently there has been increased stability issues associated with running LOCERF and client loads over 50. I know that lockon was never meant to be run with those numbers and multiplayer is buggy etc. But we know it can be done. There were several LOCERF's, BSS's and other events that have hosted upper 60 to 70 client loads with modest stability and reliability.

 

What I am wondering (and maybe I can get some Dev feedback also) is what role the meinit plays in over all stability between host and client. Can we expect a stock install on the server side and a heavily modded meinit with new models etc on the client side to play well together? Testing, etc., has lead me to believe that the closer the two are in similarity, the less errors there are and less likelihood that there will be stability issues.

 

How this will play out, if there is some validity to the above, is that we would make recommendations for exact meinit edits in order to ensure a higher probability of a stable LOCERF experience. So if you have 200+ skins for your Su-25t, and your KC-10A model is replaced with a giant zeppelin that shoots laser beams, you won't wonder why your lockon crashed as you were about to win LOCERF for your team.

[A.S]

i m gonna drift off a bit..... but bring it down to the buttom ...and that s my last try ...lol....

 

mostly, this issue is so often overseen or argued against with sayings like "we have super server, super dual-core etc etc etc " .....well

 

missing the real issue why missions go down in FPS hell if things start rolling.

 

My way to explain:

 

Make a Mission with active ground units only . Blue vs Red....(moving, not moving...scaning, shooting) increase step by step amount and action.....and go externals View watching it, and FPS same time..

 

There you reach the limits of LOCKON ..nothing to do with your connection or the PC who is hosting...its just a point where Lockon goes down on knees....

 

We had a rule back in days.....dont make a mission bigger that 100KB ...plan and place things good...less is more....in order to enjoy it. But with upcoming of dual-core generations this problem has been forgotten by to optimistic looking FPS numbers.

 

The last Locerf was a disaster performancewise....but one before we remember as the best running ever :)

 

So what was the difference :P

 

 

Other issues could be:

 

If server sets Scene to High and many clients dont know how to change manualy scenes to low.....different Clients have huge problems and maybe they influence the server ...not sure bout that..... in ohter words some guys lag behind with performance and server gets involved ?!?!?

 

Clearification bout this question would be cool...someone?

 

 

I remember as 3Sqn started hosting in Hyperlobby...it was far the best and most fluid-running server i have ever joined in...unbelieveable smooth ..not matter what....

But then after time i saw more and more optimistic-meant made battlescenarios on it.....well not much are playing on it right now ...mostly of that performance issues ....and thats sad...

Edited June 16, 2008 by A.S

[Fudd]

Some good points, thanks A.S.!

 

As moderating staff we try hard to ensure that mission settings are set the same each time to take the guess work out of what settings afford certain benefits. I know that scenes set on low on the server side gives excellent frame rates and that in turn is proportional to the amount of stability. The problem is that many missions rely on groundpounders striking buildings that are removed with scenes on low and that is why there was hesitation in going to low scenes.

 

There were several LOCERF's that were set to medium scenes with similar mission size, running ATC, etc,... and they didn't have the same issues that were seen in 08-3. The amount of client drops (correct me if I am wrong, Goya) were over 10.

 

Basically I'm wondering if the radical changes to everyones meinit, via new models that are out, are influencing some of these disconnect issues. Should server admins start adding mods to their servers???

[Grimes]

Its a good question to be raised. I would think that the massive amount of files in the various lockon folders and the free ability to upgrade the visuals of the game would be an indication that the game is meant to be modded heavily. Its certainly possible that loading a larger file for a sound, 3d model, or texture could cause enough sizable hiccups to interrupt a internet connection.

[A.S]

Every Building - what you can put manualy from the editor in a mission will be there and destroyable - ..no matter if SCENES is set to low or not.

 

what scenes does is mostly adding civilian buildings and trees ...all that kinda stuff...

 

but every objects of millitary importance ( let me put it this way ) will remain at low scenes...and as i said...editied object will be shown and will be destroyable..

 

The question is....Are strategically totally meaningless Eyecandies (scene med or high) worth the lack of performace on a critical misison like LOCERF.

 

after all these experiments over time i came personally to one point.

i set my game as low as i have to until i can play any HL server at minimum 50FPS in any kind of combat.....if it is less.....no point and i leave.... the most thing i hate is a not smooth server in combat ...:cry:

[159th_Viper]

 

The question is....Are strategically totally meaningless Eyecandies (scene med or high) worth the lack of performace on a critical misson like LOCERF....

 

From a Fast-Jet perspective - Probably Not.

 

However.........

 

From a Bomber perspective, IMHO - Hell Yeah (Scenes on Medium).

 

From providing added SA insofar as positioning is concerned to providing cover should the need arise (and the list goes on), at least some type of settlement on what would otherwise be a landscape devoid of anything is needed - I dare say for no other reason than to maintain one's sanity on a Timeous, Slow Ingress in the T-Toad, not even mentioning the Hawg.

 

Again - having Bombers engage targets that would otherwise stand out like a Boil on a Butt without Buildings/Cities etc etc would certainly IMO detract from the overall experience - but then again, that's just me.

 

A question out of interest: What was the difference between the latest mission (poor performance) and the one preceding (excellent performance)?

[X-man]

Make a Mission with active ground units only . Blue vs Red....(moving, not moving...scaning, shooting) increase step by step amount and action.....and go externals View watching it, and FPS same time..

 

There you reach the limits of LOCKON ..nothing to do with your connection or the PC who is hosting...its just a point where Lockon goes down on knees....

 

We had a rule back in days.....dont make a mission bigger that 100KB ...plan and place things good...less is more....in order to enjoy it. But with upcoming of dual-core generations this problem has been forgotten by to optimistic looking FPS numbers.

In LOCERF 08-2 (GOYA made it), the mission file was ~260kb. Without the ~70 planes with wpts added, The file was ~120kb. So you see, just the aircraft themself represent 140kbs of the file. Now you cant have a LOCERF without SAMs, Ground targets etc. :) However, you're also saying that that one was more stable anyway , and as far as I know, this one was not much larger in size. I try to make em small as well, but often you cant cut on SAMs or aircraft...

 

I agree on the scenes thing though. Alot (not all) of the drops and lag is often client based.

Edited June 16, 2008 by X-man

[Groove]

Fudd, check the amount of players from countries with high pings on your last LOCERF ( bad performance ) with the one from before ( good performance ).

 

As Lockon is lacking interpolation this might cause a issue ( just a guess though ).

[GGTharos]

Stability issues may also arise on client PC's, not necessarily the server itself; for example, the server might be able to handle a mission that a client might not. If any component becomes saturated (video, cpu, network, possibly audio!) the client might experience an FPS hit or even crash.

[A.S]

Create and Announce and Performance Setting Guideline for LOCERF then

 

what connection speed....tips and tricks for Performance under these "more action" conditions...

 

so all are aware of what is going to happen.

[S77th-konkussion]

And possibly- although a client max ping of 400 has been the benchmark for a public server- It's being pretty generous and may not be suitable for a worldwide event. You might have to enforce a better connection standard.

 

If you can't get under & maintain "300" etc etc

[S77th-GOYA]

No one had a ping over 400 in LOCERF 08-3 but there were a few over 400 in LOCERF 08-2. 08-2 was more stable. Go figure.