Building a pc with a budget of €1000 for F/A 18 hornet flight

[Multzee]

Hi I’d like to get into DCS world but I’m still quite young and don’t know much about pc hardware.
I’m aware that most dcs setups work best above €1700 but unfortunately I don’t have that kind of money. 
I don’t have a flight stick or any ir headtracking and I have about an additional €300 for that stuff 

apart from the pc something I think I should buy are  the Logitech x52 pro (€160) and some sort of IR head tracking (€60)

im going to have to buy a new monitor but I can account for that myself 

If anyone has any recommendations please let me know. Thanks!

Edited December 31, 2020 by Multzee

[Thinder]

OK. Since you mention being on a budget below €1700, here are my tips: See what you need and what you already have...

 

First. An Oculus 2 would cost you £299 and be a lot better than headtracking, Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS Hotas just above £120, and you won't regret it.

 

You'll need a good power supply, I have a Corsair 750W, the important thing is that it MUST guaranty a continuous ouput at the advertized wattage, this one does it and is not too expensive, a Corsair TX750M 750W Semi Modular Gold Certified PSU cost  as low as £94.62, do not cut on the quality or the wattage for budget reasons it can end up costing you a lot more than you would save (underwattage can cause failures).

 

You can get an MSI AMD B450 Gaming Plus Max motherboard for as little as £ 69.99 if you shop around, the thing is; it oozes with quality for the price, its BIOS can be updated to support the latest AMD Zen 3 processors and graphic cards.

 

On the negative side, it doesn't support Generation 3 PCI but it matters little since on a budget you're very unlikely to buy a graphic card able to run faster than its bus.

 

The AMD Ryzen 5 5600X is probably the favourite of the gaming community at the moment, it is a little pricey compared to the previous generation but it can run a lot faster, what you want is to avoid a bottleneck between your processor and your graphica card, so a good CPU is important. You can find them from about £ 299.99.

 

To run a VR headset in DCS you'll need a good graphic card, the minimum would be a Radeon RX 6800 MBA 16GB, I recommand that you do some homework and chose which system you want to build, Intel or AMD but for AMD, it is important to bound both processor and graphic card. You can find them from £ 599.99.

 

Now for the RAM, at low budget a good buy would be the Crucial Ballistix Gaming Memory 32GB Kit DDR4-3200 2 X 16, but if you want a little extra performance I'd strongly recommand a 4 X 8 GB kit, it will boost your FPS by up to 10%. Those will cost you as liittle as £64.79 from Crucial, I didn't see a 4 X 8GB kit  from them, but one important thing, try to get a kit of 2 X 16GB or 4 X 8 GB, they will be identical, while different kits can have different chips depending on the batch and cause issues.

 

I have a good case, all I had to do was to add a couple of strong pressure fans but if you're not planning to Overclocking you won't need extra fans, it comes equiped with two of them on the downside you'll need an external CD player, It's a Define C, and you can find them for £ 65.99 or less.

 

Now, storage is also important but a good 512 GB SSD will cost about £69.99, I recommand that you get the larger capacity SSD you can afford within your budget, make two partitions and set DCS on a different one to your OS.

 

Windows Pro is better and faster btw, it manages memory a lot better and on the market it cost anything from £6.99 to £79.99...

 

An USB player cost from £8.00 to £55, think quality here, do some homework.

 

Samsung S24D330 24-Inch LED Monitor, £93.64

 

Rainbow led usb gaming keyboard mouse and headset set £49.95

 

That will be £1425.34 for a system ready to go, you don't have to follow this shopping list by the letter, I'd adsvise you to shop around, do some research on price, reliabilty and not to cut corners on PSU, CPU, GPU and RAM, cooling is also important but much less so if you're not planning to Overclock your system, those specs would allow you to run DCS in VR at reasonable settings.

 

I hope you can figure your own solution, get it to work (follow tutorials by the letter) and enjoy playing DCS soon.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Thinder

[LucShep]

14 hours ago, Multzee said:

Hi I’d like to get into DCS world but I’m still quite young and don’t know much about pc hardware.
I’m aware that most dcs setups work best above €1700 but unfortunately I don’t have that kind of money. 
I don’t have a flight stick or any ir headtracking and I have about an additional €300 for that stuff 

apart from the pc something I think I should buy are  the Logitech x52 pro (€160) and some sort of IR head tracking (€60)

im going to have to buy a new monitor but I can account for that myself 

If anyone has any recommendations please let me know. Thanks!

 

 

I suppose you're already aware that DCS is among the most demanding sims in the market in terms of hardware requirements (systems above €1700 argument is quite true).

Be also aware that, due to the global pandemic, as well as the scalping problem, PC hardware parts prices and stock availability are pretty crazy right now. 

With that said, €1000 for system alone is very reasonable for a 1080P gaming machine. 

I have a work colleague who is at a similar position as yours, though in his case it's for a certain WW2 combat flight sim, returning after many years out of the loop.

He'll be buying pretty much everything new, only using his current keyboard and mouse. Maximum budget for everything is €1300.

We'll be building the rig ourselves, and this is the best list of parts (online purchase from different places) that we managed to fit within his budget:

 

COMPONENT	BRAND AND MODEL PART	PRICE (PER UNIT)
CPU COOLER	DeepCool Gammaxx 400S	18,00 €
PROCESSOR (CPU)	Intel Core i5 10400F (6-Cores/12-Threads) Skt1200	147,00 €
MOTHERBOARD	Gigabyte Z490 UD	139,00 €
MEMORY (RAM)	32GB (2x16GB) Team Group T-Force Vulcan Z DDR4 3200MHz CL16	118,00 €
MAIN STORAGE (OS + GAMES)	SD M.2 2280 WD Blue SN550 1TB 3D NAND NVMe	100,00 €
ADDITIONAL STORAGE (MISC ARCHIVE)	WD Blue 1TB 7200RPM 64MB SATA III - WD10EZEX	39,00 €
GRAPHICS CARD (GPU)	Zotac Gaming GeForce GTX 1660 SUPER Twin Fan 6GB	243,00 €
POWER SUPPLY (PSU)	Corsair TX750M 750W 80 Plus Gold Modular	100,00 €
PC CASE (ATX)	Kolink Observatory Lite Mesh RGB (4 fans included)	55,00 €
	SYSTEM TOTAL	959,00 €
EXTRAS
WIN10 KEY	Windows 10 Pro 64-bit OEM Key (from gvgmall.com)	19,00 €
MONITOR	Samsung SR35 IPS 27" FHD (1080P) 16:9 75Hz FreeSync	149,00 €
JOYSTICK / H.O.T.A.S.	Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS Hotas Controller	137,00 €
HEAD TRACKING	TrackHat Clip Head tracking kit (shipping not included)	50,00 €

 

 

....is something similar to this ideal for DCS + Hornet module? No, I guess it isn't. 

But at 1080P resolution, and if adjusting graphics settings, it'll provide a good experience. 

 

 

PS: before someone brings the argument "but the AMD R5 3600 + MSI B450 mobo".... nope, that combo is actually more expensive now, and not faster than that for games.

 

Edited January 1, 2021 by LucShep

[JayRoc]

Stuff like track IR and Flight Sticks are fairly cheap second hand. That's where I'd save some buck which I'd try to invest in better PC Hardware. 

[Thinder]

On 1/1/2021 at 3:30 AM, LucShep said:

PS: before someone brings the argument "but the AMD R5 3600 + MSI B450 mobo".... nope, that combo is actually more expensive now, and not faster than that for games.

 

Are you kidding?

 

You can find a Ryzen 5 3600X for as low as £141.90, a Ryzen 5 3600 for £144.00 and an MSI B450 Gaming Plus Max for £69.99, and I'm quite certain you can find cheaper with some reseach work, you just have to google it.

 

Regardless of speed, BIOS update capabilities (Updated BIOS is required for compatibility with the Gigabyte Z490 UD like MSI B450), you already lost the agrument looking at your friend's shoping list and btw, my B450/Ryzen 5 5600X beats the heck of the i9-10900K in single core test using CPU-Z and is equals to it in 4 Cores when they're both O.Ced, while it cost me £130.01 less, that's just if he wanted to upgrade his CPU in the future.

 

So you're right, there is no need for an argument here.

 

Now your friend solution vs the AMD solution: CPU only: A Ryzen 5 3600 wins hands up, stock speed like O.C.

 

1-Core: Slightly faster single-core speed.+7%

 

2-Core: Slightly faster dual-core speed.+8%

 

4-Core: +5%

 

O.C speeds.

 

1-Core: Slightly faster OC single-core speed.+5%

 

2-core: Slightly faster OC dual-core speed.+7%

 

4-Core: Slightly faster OC quad-core speed.+7%

 

Intel-Core-i5-10400F-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-3600

 

The only real advantages that your friend enjoy with his Gigabyte Z490 UD is support for PCIe Gen3, which in this context is completely irrelevant, since only the top GPUs can be expected to use more than 30% of this kind of buses bandwidth, meaning the PCIe Gen2 is just as fast when pitted with a mid-range GPU.

 

The Gigabyte Z490 UD supports DDR4 4500(O.C.) memory modules, the B 450 supports 4133 MHz (by A-XMP OC MODE).

 

So unless he is planning to O.C his memory passed 4133 MHz and use a GPU capable of using more than 50% of the PCIe Gen3, I don't see why he should go for this motherboard, it's more expensive, needs a BIOS update to use a I9 and doesn't offer capabilities he can use now.

 

 

14 hours ago, JayRoc said:

Stuff like track IR and Flight Sticks are fairly cheap second hand. That's where I'd save some buck which I'd try to invest in better PC Hardware. 

 

True, but you can also find second had headsets for below £180, which is what I did starting with a CV1, I would advise to go for a CV2 instead though...

Edited January 2, 2021 by Thinder

[LucShep]

17 hours ago, JayRoc said:

Stuff like track IR and Flight Sticks are fairly cheap second hand. That's where I'd save some buck which I'd try to invest in better PC Hardware. 

Yes, perhaps locally and with a bit of luck.
But judging by European EBAY, looking at "buy it now" prices for used products, it's not viable.
Can get same or better deals buying new in my country, and would presume similar for others in the E.U.(?).

 

For some unfortunate reason, HOTAS have recently seen increased demand, and prices increased exponentially.
Even older alternatives like the standard X52 and X52-Pro are really hard to find now (out of stock most times), and used ones fair at ludicrous price as consequence (oportunistic sellers gallore).


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by LucShep

[JayRoc]

If you can get a T16000m for 10Eur used - right now. I'd say it's fairly cheap. 

 

T16000 FCS hotas are 130Eur Obo - so 120Eur or less should be no problem. Saves you 20-40Eur. 

Edited January 2, 2021 by JayRoc

[LucShep]

4 hours ago, Thinder said:

 

Are you kidding?

 

You can find a Ryzen 5 3600X for as low as £141.90, a Ryzen 5 3600 for £144.00 and an MSI B450 Gaming Plus Max for £69.99, and I'm quite certain you can find cheaper with some reseach work, you just have to google it.

 

Regardless of speed, BIOS update capabilities (Updated BIOS is required for compatibility with the Gigabyte Z490 UD like MSI B450), you already lost the agrument looking at your friend's shoping list and btw, my B450/Ryzen 5 5600X beats the heck of the i9-10900K in single core test using CPU-Z and is equals to it in 4 Cores when they're both O.Ced, while it cost me £130.01 less, that's just if he wanted to upgrade his CPU in the future.

 

So you're right, there is no need for an argument here.

 

Now your friend solution vs the AMD solution: CPU only: A Ryzen 5 3600 wins hands up, stock speed like O.C.

 

Intel-Core-i5-10400F-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-3600

 

The only real advantages that your friend enjoy with his Gigabyte Z490 UD is support for PCIe Gen3, which in this context is completely irrelevant, since only the top GPUs can be expected to use more than 30% of this kind of buses bandwidth, meaning the PCIe Gen2 is just as fast when pitted with a mid-range GPU.

 

The Gigabyte Z490 UD supports DDR4 4500(O.C.) memory modules, the B 450 supports 4133 MHz (by A-XMP OC MODE).

 

So unless he is planning to O.C his memory passed 4133 MHz and use a GPU capable of using more than 50% of the PCIe Gen3, I don't see why he should go for this motherboard, it's more expensive, needs a BIOS update to use a I9 and doesn't offer capabilities he can use now.

 

The parts list I posted is for someone living in the same country where I live (Portugal). 
Reality here, as with most countries of the E.U., may be different than in your country (UK?).

As I said, Ryzen 2nd gen is now more expensive, on average €50,00 more than just six months ago (here and elsewhere in the E.U.).

Perhaps a reflection after the ultra low availability of 3rd gen Ryzen causing a refounded interest in 2nd gen Ryzen, or AMD directives, who knows?

The widely accepted truth is that roles have reversed in these last months - AMD is no longer as "budget friendly" as it used to be, and Intel is now more affordable.

 

 

 

 

 

The big advantage of a Z490 motherboard is that far faster memory (than 2666Mhz) can be used, and even a locked chip can see huge benefits, by having the power limit unrestricted and the BCLK raised (at least to 103, when not more), which result in very considerable gains, beating Ryzen 2nd gen equivalents.

This will be the third "10400F + cheap Z490" system that I build in 8 months and, as we found out when comparing them on otherwise identical systems, a stock 10400F is already on par, maybe a bit faster, than a stock R5 3600/3600X for gaming, while being more affordable. Unlike Ryzen gen2, no Infinity-Fabric or memory issues on Intel... 

The most interesting part is that, if unrestricted (on Z490, as mentioned), the 10400F can perform similar to a 10600K - which costs over €100 more! 
 

Look, I don't mind at all if people keep carrying on with AMD blinders and their complete ignorance on Intel (still) competitive products.

That way, CPU gems like the 10100F and the 10400F will keep on being underlooked by unaware buyers, and stock availability won't be a problem for new people getting into this hobby with limited budgets. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by LucShep

[Thinder]

Quote

  The big advantage of a Z490 motherboard is that far faster memory (than 2666Mhz) can be used, and even a locked chip can see huge benefits, by having the power limit unrestricted and the BCLK raised (at least to 103, when not more), which result in very considerable gains, beating Ryzen 2nd gen equivalents.

 

Funny I posted the maximum RAM supported by both motherboards and you didn't bother reading it and keep talking like a conman, then I advised him to fit a 5600X on this board not a 3600 or 3600X, the RAM speeds are as I posted them first tIme but there is more from AMD.

1866/ 2133/ 2400/ 2667Mhz (by JEDEC).

For AMD Ryzen Gen3 (R5/R7/R9)
2667/ 2800/ 2933/ 3000/ 3066/ 3200/ 3466/ 4000/ 4133 MHz (by A-XMP OC MODE).

For AMD Other CPU
2667/ 2800/ 2933/ 3000/ 3066/ 3200/ 3466 MHz (by A-XMP OC MODE)
MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS

 

AMD Ryzen™ 5 3600X

System Memory Specification Up to 3200MHz

AMD Ryzen™ 5 3600X Specifications

 

Then advising him (or even suggesting) to O.C this processor to run like a  10600K is one of the funniest things I have read in this forum and there have been a lot of Intel fanboing and AMD bashing since the launch of Zen 3, looks like they trigered someone.

 

So according to you, it won't need extra money to fit a cooler and run at its extreme thermal limits? FACT: your 10400F won't perform anywhere near "like a  10600K" but like an O.Ced 10600K, something the 3600/3600X can do pretty well too, I didn't mention it since I advised him to fit a Zen 3 first thing but in any case, the Ryzens from stock runs circles around your intel solution.

 

Quote

 Look, I don't mind at all if people keep carrying on with AMD blinders and their complete ignorance on Intel (still) competitive products.

    That way, CPU gems like the 10100F and the 10400F will keep on being underlooked by unaware buyers, and stock availability won't be a problem for new people getting into this hobby with limited budgets.

 

Apparently you do care, and keep at the AMD bashing, since the first thing you do next is to desinform him and suggest he should overclok when we already know he's a new guy...

 

I ran a Ryzen 5 3600X and this motherboard from the same day, same provider, with DDR 4 3200 which I O.Ced at 3600 without any issues, I never had issues with Infinity-Fabric or memory because before building a system I try to get my infos right, I only changed my signature today to Ryzen 5 5600x from 3600X.

 

First of all, you got the RAM specs all wrong, second you didn't look very far fort doing your shopping, which I advised him to do, I bough my actual RAM from the Netherland when it cost me less with postage, €159.88 is what it would cost him if he ordered his processor from the UK at doday's exchange rate.

 

That's still considerably cheaper as a system than the one you advertized as not being more expensive in the first place, then you can post all the videos you want to a newbie, anyone with the experience of how to set up an AMD system laugh at them, especially those comparing Intel to AMD.

 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Thinder

[Leaderface]

When we left Christmas behind, I think you can build a combination of Z490 + Intel overclockable 10600K or (maybe) a B550 + 5600X (That one includes cooler) combo whithin that budget of 1.000 €

32 Gb kit, and a reasonable PSU + Cage.

The problem there is the GPU (I will try to find a second hand one over 200 € and skip this generation and save money to the next one). (A 1080TI will be great for 200 €)

It will be a very powerfull machine if those components fall onto your budget in late Jaunary.

And I think it could be posible.

You could even try VR if you find a reasonable second hand 1080TI

Edited January 2, 2021 by Leaderface

[LucShep]

4 hours ago, Thinder said:

 

Funny I posted the maximum RAM supported by both motherboards and you didn't bother reading it and keep talking like a conman, then I advised him to fit a 5600X on this board not a 3600 or 3600X, the RAM speeds are as I posted them first tIme but there is more from AMD.

1866/ 2133/ 2400/ 2667Mhz (by JEDEC).

For AMD Ryzen Gen3 (R5/R7/R9)
2667/ 2800/ 2933/ 3000/ 3066/ 3200/ 3466/ 4000/ 4133 MHz (by A-XMP OC MODE).

For AMD Other CPU
2667/ 2800/ 2933/ 3000/ 3066/ 3200/ 3466 MHz (by A-XMP OC MODE)
MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS

 

AMD Ryzen™ 5 3600X

System Memory Specification Up to 3200MHz

AMD Ryzen™ 5 3600X Specifications

 

Then advising him (or even suggesting) to O.C this processor to run like a  10600K is one of the funniest things I have read in this forum and there have been a lot of Intel fanboing and AMD bashing since the launch of Zen 3, looks like they trigered someone.

 

So according to you, it won't need extra money to fit a cooler and run at its extreme thermal limits? FACT: your 10400F won't perform anywhere near "like a  10600K" but like an O.Ced 10600K, something the 3600/3600X can do pretty well too, I didn't mention it since I advised him to fit a Zen 3 first thing but in any case, the Ryzens from stock runs circles around your intel solution.

 

 

What a load of BS. 

 

First, he mentions a clearly limited budget, and you're suggesting a 3rd gen Ryzen R5 5600X?! 

....he could get the i5 10400F+Z490 (or R5 3600+B450), perhaps even include a PC ATX case as well, for the price of that processor alone!  LMAO

 

 

 

Second, the argument for maximum supported RAM speed on either motherboard is as moronic as it can get... it matters exactly ZERO in this matter.

What matters here, to help the user, is to inform of best guaranteed performance parts he can get to fit that EXACT budget on the present day. 

 

Third, please stop talking about what you clearly don't know about...

The 10400F with raised BCLK won't ever be a problem with temps, at all.  Even "overclocked" it won't consume or be hotter than a stock 3600!  ...well, how about that?

Don't believe me? ...OK, some facts then:

 

 

 

Fourth, the 10400F has much better single core performance than any Ryzen 2nd gen. And unlike them, it is memory agnostic, there's no such issues like the widely known Infinity-Fabric problem. (and the reason why so many are now overspending by swapping their Ryzen 2nd gen - including yourself I presume?)

Therefore, it's a no brainer recommentation for that budget.

 

Months ago, AMD had a very agressive pricing for the Ryzen 2nd gen (+ B450) but that's gone now, and that's why the 10400F didn't stand out then. It surely does now, having roles reversed with Intel being more affordable today.

 

So, yes, the 10400F kicks ass, and is a better purchase for gaming than the R5 3600/3600X even more now.

You can deny and foam as much as you want, it doesn't change facts.  If the videos I posted weren't enough, here's more facts:

 

 

 

FYI, "So according to you" is a dead give away of a red herring tactic, and is a special case of the ad hominem fallacy.

Not only you're misinformed, you're clearly ill-intentioned.  Just a tech-pretender (with an AMD flag) trying to rile up people on the PC forum section....

 

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by LucShep

[Thinder]

3 hours ago, LucShep said:

 

Blah... The usual projection, mediocre reality denial and spin...

 

 

You've been projecting and keep misinforming people while ignoring FACTS, here is what we established so far...

 

1) First of all he mentioned €1700, I based my list on this amount and a stock Ryzen 5 5600X is certainly a better proposition than your unlocked and OC (on only one core) 10400F, a 3600X and B450 GAMING PLUS MAX  is also cheaper solution and from stock would run faster which is what a new comer needs, not your "mine bigger" syndrome O.C comparisons.

 

Stock Boost speed for those processors are Up to 4.4GHz (AMD), (4.3 GHz Intel), passed those speeds you loose manufacturer guaranty, period.

 

Intel won't let your 10400F run at 5000 MHz multicore, people get their 3600X to runs at 4500 MHz ALL CORE, 5600X runs at 4850 ALL Cores even 6000MHz have been obtained, and I doubt very much that you'll keep Intel guaranty after unlocking it but that's irrelevant because again he needs stock performances.

 

So basically you're braging about a CPU which would need him to loose his guaranty and in any case again it is not O.C performances that matters to him, but you need to spin your way around on top of plain lying about the AMD processor. Fanboy bashing at its worst.

 

NOW: Talk about being misinformed...

 

2) I reiterate: MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX and Ryzen 5 3600X stock can take 2667/ 2800/ 2933/ 3000/ 3066/ 3200/ 3466/ 4000/ 4133 MHz (by A-XMP OC MODE) RAM. You were WRONG about the RAM speed. Both AMD and MSI proved it with proper data. If you didn't know it, you blatantly lied to do your little AMD bashing, plain funny but futile.

 

3) CPU Z charts doesn't mean ZILT to him or even to me without all the details that shows how they've been set up O.Ced and cooled, and when not O.Ced we still need to know how they are set up to have an idea.

 

People like you posting funny videos where the first thing you notice if the wrong Boost speed of the 3600X just don't get it and keep calling proper settings "problems". I would not trust you to build a PC even if it was given to me for free.

 

In his case, it's STOCK core speed that matter and you keep trying to imply that your Intel CPU is faster than a 3600X which clearly from stock it isn't.

 

4) Stop lying about the reality fabric and so called RAM issues.

As I said, I've been running a 3600X and my actual B450 Gaming Plus from 23/06/2020 to a couple of days ago, I O.Ced the RAM from 3200 to 3600MHz without any problem, used auto O.C in Ryzen Master to its max, now, from stock as I said the 3600X is FASTER than the 10400F, as for the video you posted it shows speeds that demonstrate my point, the Ryzen 5 3600X is not even optimized for boost...

 

Perhaps what you call "problems with" is what you don't know about.

 

 

I thought I'd saw everything but this deserve a special mention...

 

 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Thinder

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

Well your discussion confused me even more lol

[Thinder]

5 minutes ago, Ala12Rv-Tundra said:

Well your discussion confused me even more lol

 

In short, if you're new to building P.C don't even consider Overclocking, you need a stable, reliable system not a benchmark for Intel fanboy.

 

I built my first PC around the Pentium III, both Intel and AMD and I know all the trick used in the book for making a comparison lean in one way or the other, the fact is, the most popular CPU in the market for gaming today is the Ryzen 5 5600X and for a good reason.

 

The MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX can run it perfectly, this combo will offer the best price/performance ratio you can dream of without having to tweak your settings or overclock it, you can use its boost speed with a programe called Ryzen Master without risking to loose the manufacturer guartanty and this with the stock fan.

 

If you choose the previous generation Ryzen (3600X), it still will be a good combination, but the 5600X runs Physics 21% faster and will be capable to offer a good bound for a GPU such as the 2080 and even faster, if you consider upgrading later on.

 

In short, I've been using this motherboard with both CPUs and never had any problem, you just need to know a little about what does what in terms of settings, best RAM etc.

[Multzee]

im reading all of these replies and i am grateful for all of them and ive learned a lot from them. but i think its important to mention im going to do an intel build because im able to get large discounts on many good products. i feel like im set for the cpu but the main thing im having an issue with is getting a suitable gpu for the oculus rift s. i have my eye on the rtx 2070 super but i know its not perfect and for some missions i would have to turn down graphics. again thank you for your replies and if you know anything about what i mentioned please let me know.

Edited January 2, 2021 by Multzee

[Thinder]

26 minutes ago, Multzee said:

im reading all of these replies and i am grateful for all of them and ive learned a lot from them. but i think its important to mention im going to do an intel build because im able to get large discounts on many good products. i feel like im set for the cpu but the main thing im having an issue with is getting a suitable gpu for the oculus rift s. i have my eye on the rtx 2070 super but i know its not perfect and for some missions i would have to turn down graphics. again thank you for your replies and if you know anything about what i mentioned please let me know.

 

 

To me it matter the least which maker you go for, what is important is that people post the correct information to you, no need for bashing one or the other but this is becoming cognitive...

 

As for charts, I too can post some pretty images, just a couple of hours after installing my 5600X I manage this in single core with GPU-Z...

 

 

About your GPU. There are people posting on the subject in this forum, just research them, you'll find the infos you need.

Edited January 2, 2021 by Thinder

[LucShep]

7 hours ago, Thinder said:

 

You've been projecting and keep misinforming people while ignoring FACTS, here is what we established so far...

 

Dude, who's "we"?   ....there's only you, playing AMDom Quixote against the Intel windmills, on some dreamland where a stock Ryzen 3600 would outperform a stock Intel i5 10400F in gaming.
 

I did deliver FACTS, proving why the Intel i5 10400F is the better choice today (versus the AMD Ryzen 5 3600/3600X).

It's all in there and is undebunkable. Deal with it.

 

Quote

 

1) First of all he mentioned €1700, I based my list on this amount and a stock Ryzen 5 5600X is certainly a better proposition...

 

OMG ...your posting ambition outweighs your reading talent.... 

The man clearly said in the O.T.:  "I’m aware that most dcs setups work best above €1700 but unfortunately I don’t have that kind of money."

He mentioned a €1000 budget for the system, hence why my first post in this thread, with that parts list example (from someone near to me with similar problem), to which you reacted badly.

 

 

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Stock Boost speed for those processors are Up to 4.4GHz (AMD), (4.3 GHz Intel), passed those speeds you loose manufacturer guaranty, period.

 

Intel won't let your 10400F run at 5000 MHz multicore, people get their 3600X to runs at 4500 MHz ALL CORE, 5600X runs at 4850 ALL Cores even 6000MHz have been obtained, and I doubt very much that you'll keep Intel guaranty after unlocking it but that's irrelevant because again he needs stock performances.

 

So basically you're braging about a CPU which would need him to loose his guaranty and in any case again it is not O.C performances that matters to him, but you need to spin your way around on top of plain lying about the AMD processor. Fanboy bashing at its worst.

LOL you're running out of arguments, can't accept it when yours are beaten, right? 
Because everytime you come with the next argument it's even dumber than the previous one.
 

It would be the first time that unlocking the power limits on a Z490 motherboard would void any warranties, AFAIK.

And increasing the BCLK from 100 to 103 translates to a small increase in clock - even with Vcore on "Auto", consumption and temps will barely increase - it will never hurt that processor, motherboard, PSU or whatever components, it's just not enough to do that, ever.
 

The 10400F shows that it does not need to run at 5.0GHz to perform great, while costing less - it's already fantastic in stock factory settings.

But those changes are a one minute job in the BIOS, rock solid in stability and, while minor, are effective changes in practice  *kicks the Ryzen 3600 to the berm*

 

 

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3) CPU Z charts doesn't mean ZILT to him or even to me without all the details that shows how they've been set up O.Ced and cooled, and when not O.Ced we still need to know how they are set up to have an idea.

 

People like you posting funny videos where the first thing you notice if the wrong Boost speed of the 3600X just don't get it and keep calling proper settings "problems". I would not trust you to build a PC even if it was given to me for free.

 

In his case, it's STOCK core speed that matter and you keep trying to imply that your Intel CPU is faster than a 3600X which clearly from stock it isn't.

 

...heh?   

Go watch and read the i5 10400F reviews, such as from TechPowerUp and TechSpot, among the most reliable sources of info anywhere in the internet for PC tech. 

They're both clearly on same conclusions - at its launch it's a great gaming CPU only overshadowed by the lower prices of competition (at time of its release) in the form of the AMD Ryzen platform. Gaming benchmarks always show the i5 10400F at least as fast, and often faster than the Ryzen 3600/3600X.

Now things have changed - the AMD prices have gone up, and Intel became more affordable - the choice becomes clearer then, now favouring the i5 10400F.
 

 

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NOW: Talk about being misinformed...

 

2) I reiterate: MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX and Ryzen 5 3600X stock can take 2667/ 2800/ 2933/ 3000/ 3066/ 3200/ 3466/ 4000/ 4133 MHz (by A-XMP OC MODE) RAM. You were WRONG about the RAM speed. Both AMD and MSI proved it with proper data. If you didn't know it, you blatantly lied to do your little AMD bashing, plain funny but futile.

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4) Stop lying about the reality fabric and so called RAM issues.

As I said, I've been running a 3600X and my actual B450 Gaming Plus from 23/06/2020 to a couple of days ago, I O.Ced the RAM from 3200 to 3600MHz without any problem, used auto O.C in Ryzen Master to its max, now, from stock as I said the 3600X is FASTER than the 10400F, as for the video you posted it shows speeds that demonstrate my point, the Ryzen 5 3600X is not even optimized for boost...

 

Perhaps what you call "problems with" is what you don't know about.

You're such an hypocrite.... 

So, in one sentence you fear monger with "you loose manufacturer guaranty" with minor BCLK adjustments on the CPU. Yet on another sentence you suggest overclocking the RAM that cost nearly as much as the CPU...?!?  OMG (terrible!)

 

"reality fabric"   LMAO 

I think you mean "Infinity-Fabric"...

 

So you're on your second or third Ryzen in less than a year and you haven't heard of such issues?

 

Yes, the Infinity-Fabric problem on Ryzen, where the latency with the intercore communication CCXs is a vastly wide known issue. 

Yes, the Ryzen memory issues where, even in 2nd gen Ryzen, you can't just put any RAM stick and not expect issues (while Intel is completely agnostic to that).
And yes, the memory fussing to circumvent the intercore CCXs latency.

.....or why do you think that something like the DRAM Calculator for Ryzen became so popular and widely used, in search of improved latency?

.....or why do you think certain RAM modules (of certain high speeds and low latency) made fame and seen absurd prices/demand?

 

Here, this is an older article but that still applies for Ryzen 3000s (2nd gen Ryzen), for anyone interested: The AMD Ryzen Infinity Fabric: A Blessing And A Curse

 

It's impossible to explain the issue in a single short sentence, but it's more or less this: 

Windows loves moving threads from core to core in an effort to keep each core equally loaded.

As the L3 cache of each core complex is connected via the Infinity Fabric bus, the moving of a thread also requires the moving of its cache data via this bus.

The Infinity Fabric bus runs at the memory controller's speed and is shared by the memory controller, PCIe, etc.

Hence moving a thread on the processor causes unnecessary load on the Infinity Fabric bus and latencies, leading to less than optimal performance - a noticeable problem especially with games. 

Intel uses dual ring bus, and it doesn't suffer any of this latency penalty between cores due to its design - one of the reasons why it always has been so good for gaming. 

 

Oh, you thought the problem was just the core clock numbers?

Haven't you seen how much stronger Intel 8th, 9th and 10th gen are in single-core applications, than the 2nd gen Ryzen (3000 series)? 
Ever noticed that in DCS forums noone would ever recommend anything other than an Intel i5/i7/i9 for DCS until the overpriced/overhyped AMD Ryzen 3rd gen (5000 series) was released just a couple of months ago?
 

 

Quote

 

 

I thought I'd saw everything but this deserve a special mention...

Now that one made my day...  *bursts laughing into tears* 
Please, never, ever, post anything coming from that place. If you knew your stuff, you would know that's the last place one should resort for facts presentation (search around and you'll get it).
 

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by LucShep

[Thinder]

1 minute ago, LucShep said:

 

Dude, who's "we"?   ....there's only you, playing AMDom Quixote against the Intel windmills, on some dreamland where a stock Ryzen 3600 would outperform a stock Intel i5 10400F in gaming.

 

 

 

OMG ...your posting ambition outweighs your reading talent.... 

The man clearly said in the O.T.:  "I’m aware that most dcs setups work best above €1700 but unfortunately I don’t have that kind of money."

He mentioned a €1000 budget for the system (his post was edited afterwards, that part removed after our posts), hence why my first post in this thread, with that parts list example (from someone near to me with similar problem).

 

 

LOL you're running out of arguments, aren't you? 
Because everytime you come with the next one it's even dumber than the previous one....
 

It would be the first time that unlocking the power limits on Z490 would void any warranties, AFAIK.

And increasing the BCLK from 100 to 103 translates to a very, very small increase in clock. Even with Vcore on "Auto", consumption and temps will hardly increase - it will never hurt that processor, motherboard, PSU or whatever componentes, it's just not enough to do that, ever.
 

The 10400F shows that it does not need to run at 5.0GHz to perform great, while costing less - it's already fantastic in stock factory settings.

But those changes are a one minute job in the BIOS, rock solid in stability, and while minor they're still effective in practice  *kicks the Ryzen 3600 to the berm*

 

 

 

...heh?   

Go watch and read the i5 10400F reviews, such as from Techpowerup and Techspot, among the most reliable sources of info anywhere in the internet for PC tech. 

They're both clearly on same conclusions - at its launch was a great CPU overshadowed by the lower prices of the AMD Ryzen platform (at time of its release), the i5 10400F is always at least as fast, and often faster than the 3600/3600X.

The thing is, the AMD prices have gone up, and Intel is more affordable - the choice becomes clearer then, favouring the i5 10400F if put against the Ryzen 3600/3600X.
 

 

You're such an hypocryte....  So, in one sentence you fear monger "loose manufacturer guaranty" with BCLK minor adjustments on the CPU, yet on another sentence you suggest overclocking the RAM that cost nearly as much as the CPU...?  OMG such a terrible tech advisor 

 

"Reality fabric"   LMAO 

I think you mean "Infinity-Fabric"...

 

So you're on your second or third Ryzen in less than a year and you haven't heard of such issues?

 

Yes, the Infinity-Fabric problem on Ryzen, where the latency with the intercore communication CCXs is a vastly wide known issue. 

Yes, the Ryzen memory issues where, even in 2nd gen Ryzen, you can't just put any any RAM stick and not expect issues (while Intel is completely agnostic to that).
And yes, the memory issues to circumvent the intercore  CCXs latency.

.....or why do you think that something like the DRAM Calculator for Ryzen became so popular and widely used, in search of improved latency?

.....why do you think certain RAM modules (of certain high speeds and low latency) made fame and seen absurd prices/demand?

 

Here, this old article still applies for Ryzen 3000s (2nd gen Ryzen) as well for anyone interested:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-5-1600x-cpu-review,5014-2.html

 

It's impossible to explain the issue in a single short sentence, but it's more or less this:  Windows loves moving threads from core to core in an effort to keep each core equally loaded.
As the L3 cache of each core complex is connected via the Infinity Fabric bus, the moving of a thread also requires the moving of its cache data via this bus.
The Infinity Fabric bus runs at the memory controller's speed and is shared by the memory controller, PCIe, etc.
Hence moving a thread on the processor causes unnecessary load on the Infinity Fabric bus and latencies, leading to less than optimal performance - a noticeable problem especially with games. 

 

Oh, you thought the problem was just the core speeds number?

Haven't you seen how much stronger Intel 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th gen are in single-core applications, than the 2nd gen Ryzen (3000 series)? 
Ever noticed that in DCS forums noone would ever recommend anything other than an Intel i5/i7/i9 for DCS until the overpriced/overhyped AMD Ryzen 3rd gen (5000 series) was released about a couple of months ago?
 

 

Now that one made my day...  *bursts laughing into tears* 
Please, never, ever, post anything coming from that place. If you knew your stuff, you would know that's the last place one should resort for facts presentation (search around and you'll get it).
 

 

 

Get a life you troll. you've been proven wrong time and time again, sorry but if you need this sort of attention, try a knitting forum.

 

Bye.

[Thinder]

 

[LucShep]

44 minutes ago, Thinder said:

 

Get a life you troll. you've been proven wrong time and time again, sorry but if you need this sort of attention, try a knitting forum.

 

Bye.

 

That's called Psychological Projection - nice try but no cigar.

In a place where healthy discussions are welcome for the better of all, YOU are the troll poluting these forums with AMD shilling, angry with anyone contradicting your agenda (seen with me and others), feeding misinformation to those in need of propper information. 

You have been proven wrong now and every single time by your peers, yet refuses to aknowledge that, unable to argue as any normal person.

It's high time someone calls you on your BS.

And back to the ignore list, poser.

 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by LucShep

[Multzee]

to put a conclusion on this thread this is what im deciding to go for its not entirely finished and im still trying to sort out the gpu but i should be fine sorting it out. 

thank you all again for your responses.

 

[LucShep]

@Multzee:  That looks good!  (awesome price on that i9 10850K!)

 

But there are a couple of issues I see there:

1) I don't think a €60 cooler (be it air or water) will suffice an i9 10850K (same as an i9 10900K), as that's the most power hungry and hottest consumer processor today (can surpass 150W when gaming at high refresh). I'd go for either a 280mm or 360mm AIO (recommend Arctic Liquid Freezer II), depending on PC case clearance. 

If that's too rich and breaks the budget, then just get an i7 10700K and be done with it (a good €60 cooler will work just fine there).

 

2) You really need to get a much better Power Supply Unit (PSU) - you chose the Corsair CV550 (550W).
The CV series from Corsair are the low-end range, meant for office/home "low requirement" PCs and not fitting with those components, plus you need more than 550W.

You got expensive power hungry components in that system, so you want them well powered and safe from electrical troubles.
Aim for a quality 80+Gold rated 700W+ PSU to be on the safe side (tipically Tier A or Tier B on psucultists PSU Tier List).
Also, the 750W PSUs (plenty found at just €15 more than 650W versions) can handle even hungrier graphics cards (like latest high-end ones) when upgrading later.

Here's some examples of good 750W PSUs regularly available and not ultra expensive (get whichever is in stock at lowest price):

• Corsair TX750M 750W (80+ Gold, Semi-Modular) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  €100 (+/-)
• Corsair RM750 750W (80+ Gold, Full-Modular)  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  €115 (+/-)
• Phanteks AMP Series 750W (80+ Gold, Full-Modular) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>  €110 (+/-)
• Seasonic Focus GM 750W (80+ Gold, Semi-Modular) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>  €105 (+/-)
• Seasonic Focus GX 750W (80+ Gold, Full-Modular) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  €115 (+/-)
• Super Flower Leadex III 750W (80+ Gold, Full-Modular) >>>>>>>>>>>>>  €110 (+/-)
• Super Flower Legion GX Gold PRO 750W (80+ Gold, Semi-Modular) >>>>  €100 (+/-)
• Thermaltake Toughpower GF1 750W (80+ Gold, Full-Modular) >>>>>>>>  €115 (+/-)

Edited January 6, 2021 by LucShep