sigh .... Apparently another 'thing' with the F14 , this time it's ECM makes it completely immune to amraams, R77's and 27R's. Great...

[GGTharos]

Or perhaps change your idea of what a 'good fight' is, because if you're thinking of some sort of 1v1 in the middle of an MP server with multiple aircraft per side you've got some funny expectations.

 

You definitely do have options though:   You can set up your own server where everyone uses the same aircraft and fights are curated so that you can have 'good fights'.  Alternatively you can go play ace combat or war thunder if balance is your thing.  DCS doesn't and won't have it, and neither F-14's nor their pilots are bad because of it.

 

Air warfare is about tactics, in particular group tactics - do you practice any of that?  I imagine you do not, and you just want to magically have 'good 1v1s' in populated MP servers.

 

PS:  And I agree that bugs need to go, but bringing them up constantly after they're fixed is clearly your problem.

Edited January 22, 2021 by GGTharos

[DD_Fenrir]

48 minutes ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

... but just came here to hurl insults and be butthurt. 

 

 

Ironic, considering the tone and manner of the vast majority of ANY of your posts regarding the Tomcat in DCS.

 

48 minutes ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

... fine but you could be a bit less bitchy about it couldn't you ? 
 

 

Again... Pot. Kettle. And a VERY dark tone.....

 

48 minutes ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

About the bugs you seem to be like "oh well it's just bugs" , but in my opinion all these bugs were quite serious and very detrimental to online gameplay. 
 

 

I think you'll find that the majority of F-14 drivers, along with HB when this issue first appeared all collectively went "oh shi...." under their breaths; the users because we don't want to have that kind of ludicrous advantage; and HB because it essentially wrecked the weapon system of the Tomcat and now they've got to interface with ED to assist/chase up/test on the API edits that would be required to fix it.

 

"oh well bugs" comes from a pragmatic philosophy of "what can I do about"? None but ED with some secondary testing from HB could do anything constructive to fix it, so in the meantime the server operators ban Phoenixes (if they're aware of the issue) and F-14 drivers put up with Sparrows or take the AIM-54 engagements off-line. This philosophy comes from a considered, objective, reasonable analysis of the facts at hand, something you have repeatedly shown you find difficult to do.

 

What were you expecting? We're supposed to grab our pitchforks, flaming torches and follow your half-baked crusade chanting "it's a consparicy!" line?

 

Please. 

 

48 minutes ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

Your tone is extremely unpleasant.

 

Hypocrites I find often are offended by the fruits of what they sow.

 

 

48 minutes ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

You should try to not get so upset when people don't exactly agree with you.
 

 

And as if to reinforce the point, if your manner when posting ANYTHING in the form of critque had the calm, measured tone and delivery of a reasonable, rational adult voicing a point of concern in a polite, considerate and respectful manner then maybe you'd have a point but at this stage I'm just gonna say: what the hell did you expect?

Edited January 22, 2021 by DD_Fenrir

[IronMike]

Let us please all stay friendly with each other. CSGO has the right to his opinion, as do we all. OTOH, CSGO, you have to consider of course that "the tone makes the music". The thing is simply this: you are most welcome here. You are most welcome to share your thoughts and opinions. But you can always start in a friendly and a bit less suspecting manner that we try to make your life harder. That's the main reason why everyone is giving you a bit of a hard time here. In German we say, "as you scream into the forest, it echoes back". I really want to invite you to feel more at home on our forums, and have a more open and friendly discussion with us - and I also see that you strive for that yourself and I appreciate that. There's really no need to feel we would have anything to hide from you, or that we do not respect your opinion (albeit we might not always agree) or any of that sorts. It's also just basic phsychology: the less accusing one is, the less ppl feel the need to defend themselves - but that's just on the side. 

We do take bugs very seriously, and we do agree, these bugs were game breaking and got immediately pushed to the top of the list. Some of them hold that spot for quite a while and prevent us from doing other stuff, too. That is how important MP is to us. I've bled DCS MP for 15 years, I've helped built the longest running flight-sim server in the world, I know what goes into hosting them and maintaining them (for over a decade) and building a MP community and what is threatening to it (I hope at least in most parts). Some bugs are inconveniences, such bugs as no RWR warning are heavy grievances, and so on. You can really trust us that we both get that and consider it of outmost importance. And, if in your opinion the F14 doesn't always fit for the kind of balance that you prefer, then that is totally ok. Everyone should enjoy the game how he or she wants. But there is also another possible point of view. That it is a challenge. That it forces you to think differently. To learn new tactics. To adapt. Adapting is the fighter pilot's greatest skill, both irl and in DCS. I invite you to try and see it from that perspective, and I invite you to seek out teamplay, because then you can beat any aircraft with any other aircraft you pick. You really can. PvP, in my personal opinion, becomes glorious when a team fights coordinated. And when you achieve that, anything goes. In fact, it invites more realism and more unbalanced situations, because else it soon becomes too easy. And the road of getting there and training for it is also fun. 

But, either way, whether we find a common place or agree or disagree, most of all I would like to invite you to approach us just plainly and openly in the future. There's no harm in going, "hey folks at Heatblur, I noticed this bug, can you look into it pls?" You can be sure that we will, and as you can see, we're always willing to take the time and talk and explain. Again, please do feel welcome here.

And I wish you happy hunting online and many juicy kills against the F-14!

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

2 hours ago, DD_Fenrir said:

I think you'll find that the majority of F-14 drivers, along with HB when this issue first appeared all collectively went "oh shi...." under their breaths; the users because we don't want to have that kind of ludicrous advantage; 

Sadly i find the contrary to be true. Even the slightest, most carefully phrased concern about a bug being a problem in MP is in my experience instantly met with very vocal resistance from F14 players. Even the through mountain flying, or no active warning phoenix missiles were met with "but jester isn't perfect" excuses on various discords and forums. 
But It's a very common issue in all games, DCS is no different in that regard. 
Every once in a while some new weapon/vehicle whatever is introduced as an add-on to generate sales, and it's always broken at first , and i always feel like ´the sniper guy´ in this ancient video. 
 

@IronMike
With what i said above, i hope you understand that to me some things looked very convenient so to speak when the F14 was released.
"Make module 2x range  2x speed missiles + OP bugs = sales" kind of thing. 
On the other hand people are also buying all kinds of modules like the "YAK 52" so who knows maybe i'm paranoid from playing all sort of other games. 
Generally speaking DCS is not really a multiplayer game yet , i sometimes forget that. 
The title of this thread was not very tactful indeed . 

I wonder how the Eurofighter is going to affect MP. I'm already triggered quaking . Ree. 





 

[Naquaii]

I'm just not sure where you're going with the complaints against the missile range of the F-14? What were you expecting and what do you expect us to do? Nerf the range because you think it's too great?

 

Also, I really do hope you don't think random bugs occuring one at a time and then being fixed next patch is something we'd use as a sales pitch? Really?

Edited January 22, 2021 by Naquaii

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

43 minutes ago, Naquaii said:

I'm just not sure where you're going with the complaints against the missile range of the F-14? What were you expecting and what do you expect us to do? Nerf the range because you think it's too great?

 

Also, I really do hope you don't think random bugs occuring one at a time and then being fixed next patch is something we'd use as a sales pitch? Really?

 

No i don't expect a range nerf. 
I only stated that because of the range difference i feel that the phoenix doesn't fit in one small, (% wise) aspect of DCS, which is pvp multiplayer.
So again, i do not expect the range to be nerfed. 

And i also don't think you guys are introducing bugs on purpose .
But i won't lie i was very suspicious of the F14 when it first launched and i read that missile thread . 
At the very least i thought the idea HB had was "Better make sure it's at least not too weak" .
Kind of staying on the safe side , for F14 module owners that is.  
I mean who wants to put out a module with long sticks that gets pummeled by a mig 21 too easily. 

Anyway, I just hope that the most annoying bugs are behind us. 

[Sideburns]

47 minutes ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

More unsubstantiated waffle

 

When the Phoenix no RWR warning issue was apparent it was taken seriously by HB and most server owners. In the latter case many missions removed the Phoenix until it could be fixed. Unfortunately given ED's monthly update cycle this did take some time to arrive, during which time most F14's were relegated to fox1/fox2 situation with sparrows and sidewinders. It was a fun time to explore these missiles for many.

 

I also generally find the F14 community one of the most honest w.r.t not exploiting bugs, reporting bugs and striving for accuracy. As well as finding HB one of the most respectful module developers when responding to legitimate and illegitimate bug and issues in their modules, as you may note by their responses to you on this topic.

 

While DCS is not perfect, it is highly enjoyable in multiplayer because of the general accuracy, strengths and weaknesses of each module. If you don't enjoy multiplayer fine, but stating it is not a multiplayer game/simulator when many enjoy DCS this way just serves to make you look foolish, as does your focus on pay to win.

 

As per Naquaii's response, what do you hope to achieve here?

Would you like some tuition on how to beat the F14 in MP?

[TLTeo]

Honestly at this point there's no reason to keep this thread open.

[Skysurfer]

This is hilarious. 

[Relayer]

...Is there a point to this?