GGTharos Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Oh I think you have just severely underestimated what it means to develop a new plane ... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
empeck Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Oh I think you have just severely underestimated what it means to develop a new plane ... You're right. It's at least months of hard work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellonet Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 You're right. It's at least months of hard work.For one person to create a model to the same level as Ka-50 I'd say it's quite a few months of hard work :) i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 It's not just a model, it's huge amounts of knowledge ... THink about it: 3D model with damage 3D pit, clickable Sensors! Power/voltage/sources Hydraulics Fuel system Engine system The links to link it all up. How about navigation and radios ... How about them icing and dust effects? :D Engines overheating because they're being abused? The Flight Model? :D [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
empeck Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Yeah. A month. :thumbup: I'm not sure if you're trying to be ironic. If yes, you're talking to wrong person, I have over five years of experience in modelling for games, three years as professional 3d artist, and almost two years of developing addons for FS9/FSX as a hobbyst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMFA117_Poko Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 ^ second that. Look for Lublin plane for FSX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avimimus Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 They're working hard to ruin their own! ;) I just help end their misery - but anyway, joking aside ... Some of you guys mentioned wanting ground units and - if you notice, the SDK allows cockpit development and the addition of a physics engine. Perhaps some developers will decide to develop player controlled SAMs or AAA, or things like that. If ED has the time and interest, perhaps they will add some factors that affect this - like traction, softness and composition of the ground, etc. Wait... lets figure this out. There is an ability to make cockpits. There is an ability to make an external FM and plug it into DCS (one hell of a lot of work I should think). My question is: What about the ability to make changes to data filed (eg. weapon performance, damage models etc.)? If this is all true, I wouldn't expect DCS quality - but I'm sure being able to tweak a couple transport aircraft so that they are flyable would be a wonderful thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I would certainly hope to see a flyable tanker and awacs :) As for weapons, I don't know. I would really think that you would be limited to the existing weapons, but I might be wrong. Then again, if you WERE considering doing some form of Lo-Fi version of a Su-27SM, R-77's and 27's are available in the game already, as is the Su-27's 30mm gun. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boberro Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Wonderful, I imagine when I sit in Strela and snipe planes hyhyh :D Reminder: Fighter pilots make movies. Bomber pilots make... HISTORY! :D | Also to be remembered: FRENCH TANKS HAVE ONE GEAR FORWARD AND FIVE BACKWARD :D ಠ_ಠ ツ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeroscout Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 We will be able to fly/use these addons online, right? (I would assume so if they're going to have to be approved by ED) Maybe we fighter pilots will get some fast jets after all! Great news! Aero out DCS Wishlist: 1) FIX THE DAMN RIVERS!!! 2) Spherical or cylindrical panorama view projection. 3) Enhanced input options (action upon button release, etc). 4) Aircraft flight parameter dump upon exit (stick posn, attitude, rates, accel, control volume, control-surface positions, SAS bias, etc). 5) ADS-33 maneuver courses as static objects. 6) Exposed API or exports of trim position and stick force for custom controllers. 7) Select auto multiple audio devices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Well .. yes we will. ED has already lined up F-15C, F-16, Su-27 and MiG-29. :) As for using community addons online, hopefuly there will be -some- sort of security measure to prevent UFOs (or generally, unwanted aircraft - imagine a Su-27 or F-15C dropping into your Vietnam era server ... :D ) from showing up :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
empeck Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Wow, you're talking about Vietnam era - is it going to be possible to make a total conversion mod? For example if there would be a team that would like to make WW2, or Korea mod for DCS, would it be possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Don't think of it as a 'total conversion' mod ... think of it as adding stuff to DCS and simply limiting what's accessible on your server/mission. For example, say you do create your WW2 mods, so you have a whole bunch of planes, and AA trucks and guns, and you've modeled a bunch of european terrain - so, only put THOSE vehicles in and there you go. And hey, if you wanna do a mission such as 'The Final Countdown' ... :D [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobek Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Don't think of it as a 'total conversion' mod ... think of it as adding stuff to DCS and simply limiting what's accessible on your server/mission. For example, say you do create your WW2 mods, so you have a whole bunch of planes, and AA trucks and guns, and you've modeled a bunch of european terrain - so, only put THOSE vehicles in and there you go. And after a lifetime of work you sure are too old to play with that stuff....:D Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Sadly this is true :D If you get enough people to work on this though, you could complete a serviceable mod of this sort in year or two I'd think. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMFA117_Poko Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 But it is possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellonet Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Wait a minute... isn't ED supposed to approve everything that goes into DCS as with 1c and IL-2? And if they let 3rd party stuff in, shouldn't it be up to the same standard as ED's own stuff? If so I have a hard time believing that there will be huge amounts of aircraft and stuff made. After all the fidelity of the Ka-50 is above anything ever done before, so the likelyness of some small group of modders being able to create such a craft is remote. i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobek Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Sadly this is true :D If you get enough people to work on this though, you could complete a serviceable mod of this sort in year or two I'd think. In DCS-quality? I honestly doubt that. Sure, the old planes lack the sophisticated avionics and stuff but u still have to do all the damage models and the piston engines might be harder to simulate then turbine counterparts. Also involving ppl who have some rl-exp to tune the FM might be a challenge for a non commercial team. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 (edited) Concern for 3rd party support Eagle Dynamics DCS 3rd Party Support Packages In an effort to better support 3rd party development of Digital Combat Simulator (DCS), Eagle Dynamics has created a set of plug-ins that will allow 3rd party developers far greater capability to modify and add to DCS. Current plug-in support includes: Physical Cockpit Interface Package (PCIP). This package provides support to cockpit builders and allows them to more efficiently, and with great depth of capability, to port systems simulated in software to their physical cockpits. This includes support to various projection systems. PCIP will be made available to all after the release of DCS: Black Shark. Terrain Builder. This plug-in to 3DSMax allows developers to create new terrain maps (elevation, texturing, and object placement) that can be used within DCS. Creators of such terrain will be required to enter a contractual relationship with Eagle Dynamics such that Eagle Dynamics will own the content. 3D Model Builder. This plug-in to 3DSMax allows the creation of animated, 3D objects that can be used to populate DCS. Models of sufficient quality may be integrated into DCS. 6 DOF Cockpit Builder. This plug-in allows object builders to create new 6 DOF cockpits that can be assigned to DCS user-created aircraft. External Flight Model Linking. This software package allows the linking of 3rd party flight dynamic systems into DCS to control aircraft. GUI Source Package. This package includes sources codes to allow the developer to create their own GUI screens, Mission Editor, Campaign Editor. With the exception of the Terrain Builder, these 3rd party support packages will be available to qualified developers after the release of DCS: Black Shark. Those qualified developers with experience developing terrain may contact Matt Wagner at matt@fighter-collection.com to discuss DCS terrain creation. Any such content will be the property of Eagle Dynamics to which Eagle Dynamics may use as part of the DCS software package. Content created with these tools may be released in one of three ways: 1. Content that meets Eagle Dynamics quality standards may be directly integrated into the later DCS software packages. 2. Content may be released at no cost to consumers as unofficial add-ons. 3. Content may be released as official pay-ware DCS add-ons but a royalty payment to Eagle Dynamics would be required. Further details will be made available after the release of DCS: Black Shark. Until then, note that all the above is subject to change. Why is it necessary that ED owns the content that people make? And if someone does ask for people to pay, why is ED requiring royalties? Dont you believe this will in some ways hinder 3rd party development? I am not sure of any other developer that does this. Edited July 11, 2008 by =Prophet= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warthogmadman987 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I have a feeling that this community is so dedicated, that they are willing to pay a little bit of a price, and I know for a fact that there are 3rd parties in this community willing to do this stuff for the community for free. While it may seem a little hindering, I look at all this stuff we could use as a blessing. Much needed to be able to keep quality up too I am sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobek Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Why is it necessary that ED owns the content that people make? And if someone does ask for people to pay, why is ED requiring royalties? ED does not own the content other ppl make, its just that *commercial* add-ons use EDs content, so ED has a right to receive a share of the income. Same as if some musician makes a cover of a piece you wrote. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellonet Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I really hope they`ll do quality assurance for payware add-ons as well, not just for the stuff they buy and adopt to include into DCS modules. I don't think though this will limit development, although a small group of modders won't be enough of course. But just look at FSX. A lot of payware add-ons there are waaay more realistic than the standard planes. I believe the whole idea is to attract professional developers who don't have the funding to create their own Sim, but the knowledge and ability to create content that's on a par with DCS modules. And I guess ED will also provide them with the necessary information about the inner workings of the DCS engine, besides SDK tools, given they sign the necessary contracts of course.We can only hope, I only know that after I get DCS:BS I will want all flyables to go by the same standards. Throwing in some other aircraft with a completely different level of realism would be unacceptable to me. i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Like hitiles and AE pits? Or any of the other FPS levels people create? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilBivol-1 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 First of all, content ownership is stated to only come into play specifically for terrain addons. Secondly, according to the above description, modders will not be charged anything for releasing free addons. However, if a 3rd party releases a payware addon, they will have to pay a royalty fee to ED, because they will be making money in large part off of the work ED has done for them. Finally - and most importantly - remember, this is all still subject to change. - EB [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Nothing is easy. Everything takes much longer. The Parable of Jane's A-10 Forum Rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 And that is why I am bringing it up. It is common for developers to release plugin and tools to create 3rd party content, and I dont know of any that claim to own the content, or even take royalties if you charge for it. I just think it would really discourage some people from making the content. Like the Walmis F15 model, and the new A10 model. I would gladly pay for those. This naval pack that people are making, I would gladly pay for that too. But it would sure leave a bad taste if ED was taking royalties for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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