CCIP Mk-82 Snake eye impact Long still after a year without fix?

[GumidekCZ]

Hi,

is that only me, that after a year I still experiencing CCIP Mk-82 Snake Eye impacts Long, like 20-30 meters?

Hope that this will be fixed soon together with CCRP cues now bugged.

M2C_CCIP-long_BUG.trk

[felixx75]

I can confirm this. Still the same problem...

[TLTeo]

RB's official stance is that it's a user error. Make of that what you will.

[jojo]

I'm not totally satisfied with CCIP either, but this is how I deal with it.

500kt, between 100ft and 300ft AGL maximum.

Stabilize flight during release so impact spacing be consistent.

- The BTR-80 are 60m apart

- PPA setrings: NB = 4/ DIST = 6

 

AFAIK: this is consistent with how FAF and French Navy fighters used high drag bombs in Lebanon, Chad and Irak...

 

 

I didn't have time to check for CCRP, but it's said to have been fixed in Open Beta.

Edited February 8, 2021 by jojo

[Hodo]

Funny I haven't had an issue with them going long.  As long as I am in the correct perimeters on drop they are usually pretty close to the top of the predicted impact point.  

 

But this is just my experience.

[TLTeo]

So I just thought of one argument we might, possibly, be able to make with Razbam. It probably won't work, but here goes.

 

@RAZBAM_ELMO's arguments are always that "you need to fly a profile and you need a stabilized pipper" There should be a Twitch VOD of Elmo using this profile to deliver Snakeyes fairly accurately. What that means in practice is you need to enter a 30ish degree dive (rather flying in a straight line) a few thousand feet off the target, deliver at a sensible speed of, say 400 KIAS, and you need to track the target with the pipper rather than walk it up to the target and then pickle. Notably, this profile is nothing like the level bombing profile Jojo showed, which instead is more similar to CCIP high drag bombing in the Viggen.

 

The procedure Elmo showed is different from, e.g., delivering weapons in the Viper. In that jet you don't keep the pipper on the target, instead you put the bomb fall line on the target and pickle when the pipper is on top of it - e.g. here. This is also what you would do with a fixed sight that doesn't have a CCIP mode, like in the F-5. What is striking to me between the link and what Elmo showed on Twitch (I don't have the link unfortunately) is that in Mover's video, the jet pulls off the dive safely a few thousand feet off the ground. This profile is more or less similar to dive toss CCRP delivery (which I think you can do in the Mirage?). Meanwhile, Elmo was a couple hundred feet off the ground by the time he pulled out of his dive, which I highly doubt is SOP. It kind of makes sense this would happen too - high drag bombs obviously slow down after release, so you need to drop them closer to the target for them to hit at a given dive angle.

 

My point is, I realize that a Mirage has a different computer than e.g. a Viper, and is not as focused on A2G, but I honestly do not see how it's possible for a standard delivery profile used in real life to be that unsafe.

Edited February 8, 2021 by TLTeo

[jojo]

I have to say I am in a mutual disagreement with RAZBAM_ELMO about CCIP attack profile. 

 

I tried the 30° dive on target with high drag bombs, but IMHO:

- you are over exposed to ground fire

- I almost crashed on target, full aft stick after release to end up 200ft AGL...if you are too late you're dead.

 

The computer should take care of flight profile.

Edited February 9, 2021 by jojo

[El Chapo]

And don't forget this is an 80's computer inside, with a low refresh rate (we don't talk about MHz or GHz...). 

A stable horizontal flight gives you a precise bombing solution, while a dive bombing gives you lot of errors. 

As mentioned, this is a question that has already been discussed with Razbam, please read former topics about high drag bombs for M2000. 

Jojo is definitely right, please consider that his video is the way to go. 

[LastRifleRound]

One thing I noticed in all bomb modes is if you are pitching at all, even if it's a nice stable consistent pitch, you will miss. This probably shouldn't be the case. I find the aircraft needs to be completely unloaded then I get great results.

[Mikeck]

Yeah, problem for me is that unless I have some slight positive G (1.2-1.5), I always seem to drop on release and hit my own bombs. So, like the Viggen, when I level bomb CCIP, I just drop a bit early: “Kentucky Windage”