Pilot Recovery

[Wardog21]

After I eject, I want to transition into a first person shooter, where I have to evade capture, sneak and or fight my way to an extraction zone to be picked up by a player controlled or Ai controlled CSAR helo. 

 

It would be nice to have multiple options inside the ME called "Pilot Recovery Options". These options could be:

 

"Traditional" - In this instance, it uses the existing game mechanics. You get shot down, eject, press escape and choose a new slot.

 

"Bypass CSAR" - In this instance, you have the option as a pilot to bypass the CSAR element. In doing so, you are taken back to the "Select Role" screen and are then required to wait a predetermined amount of time set in the ME.

 

"Realistic CSAR" - In this instance (upon landing after ejecting), you must radio for help and are subsequently given coordinates to use on the F10 map to reach an extraction zone. You must evade capture until you are picked up by a CSAR element via either air or ground (also set by mission author in the ME).  

 

I feel this would really set DCS apart in the industry.

[Aarnoman]

This is a flight simulator, not Arma. I think you are severely underestimating the workload involved, and it would not be a feature used by the majority of the player population anyway.

You can currently achieve what you mentioned with csar using the csar script+slotblocker anyway.

 

I do support your idea of being able to set a timer before able to take a new slot after death though, would be a useful feature of the mission editor.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Aarnoman
A word

[Wardog21]

I will be the first to admit that I'm totally ignorant when it comes to the workload involved in coding. The extent of my coding experience has been fiddling around with Excel Macros and doing extremely basic stuff in DOS back in the day. That isn't saying much at all.

 

I am unfamiliar with the csar script you speak of. I will have to look into that. 

 

I know this isn't Arma. I've played it, but I keep coming back to DCS. Also, I'm not new to DCS or ED titles. While I am in no way trying to underestimate the workload involved with this task, I can't imagine it would be anymore difficult than ED creating Combined Arms?

 

Also, thanks to Combined Arms, DCS is not purely a flight simulator anymore is it? And after all, it's Digital "Combat" Simulator not Digital Combat Flight Simulator.

 

I could be very wrong, but I feel like the basic mechanics of what we need for this are already there in Combined Arms, are they not? Can you not control ground vehicles with the keyboard and mouse? Why couldn't the FPS part just be a modified copy of the Humvee code?

 

Whether it is written into Combined Arms or as a standalone module for DCS, what if it worked like this: Upon ejecting and landing safely, you had the option to enter the "select role" screen and select the "downed pilot" role. You would then be put into what is basically a modified Humvee. In F1 view you would have only crosshairs in the middle of the screen, and basic info regarding your sidearm and or health to start with. You could then use the radio to contact CSAR. Then, when you get picked up and returned to an airbase or carrier, you can select a new aircraft role. By the way, if you didn't have the module, or if you didn't want to participate in the downed pilot role, you could still have those options of being able to set a timer for respawn so you could still bypass the CSAR all together. This again, would be set by the author of the mission in the ME, but you have to agree that it would make a lot of helo pilots out there happy as well.

 

Sure, I imagine that the brunt of the code would be trying to figure out how to do things like record and transfer your current position as an "aircraft role" to the new downed pilot role so it would populate in the correct spot. The Humvee code already exists and could be modified to only go as fast as soldiers do, and at first leave out the ability to jump or crouch if it was too difficult. No need to create a new 3D model as it would use the same generic 3D model as the ejected pilot. I'm guessing that the transport troops code could be used to extract you and the way DCS would qualify you as being returned safely could easily be done using part of group or unit inside moving zone trigger in the ME. This just seems logical to me. Again, I have no idea how it would really work within the confines of the code because I have no clue as to how that all works, but again. It seems like most of the tools are already there. 

 

I can't believe it would be too difficult for ED to do this. This like all modules could evolve over time and become more refined, but it would be a start. Again, I'd gladly buy Combined Arms or any module that modeled this, just like I purchased Super Carrier to have the deck crew and better ATC for the carrier. It's the little things, even though I bet they are massive projects to take on. 

 

I get it, maybe this is just too much? Maybe, for starters, a good place for ED to start would be making it possible for other players in multiplayer to see your pilot walking around on the ground after ejecting? I think that's a solid starting point. Then you can start tackling it piece by piece... that's how you eat an elephant after all.

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, if we took a poll on this and it turns out that nobody else wants to have this implemented, then by all means, ED should just keep trucking along like it has been. But, DCS is growing and while I hope that it some day includes a pilot recovery/csar ability, I'll be content in the meantime with having realistic basket physics and interactions with the aircraft while refueling, and the Super Carrier touch given to airbases so that ground crew and equipment can be seen and used and have better ATC.

 

Would also be nice if troops could be seen inside the Huey during transport and didn't just populate and disappear outside the helo. There is so much work to be done, and yes it all has to be prioritized. I just hope ED doesn't fall behind the curve, because some day, a studio will have a high fidelity full spectrum combat simulation in one package where land, sea and air battles all take place in one highly detailed gaming environment. I hope for ED's sake that it is DCS that spearheads this.

 

Lastly, I'm not trying to be confrontational at all, but I feel I have to call you out on the second half of your second sentence. With all due respect, I would argue that you don't speak on behalf of "the majority of the player population" in DCS. On what information or authority do you make that claim? Also, you're killing my buzz man, this is a "wishlist" not a "demand list". Haha.

[upyr1]

7 hours ago, Wardog21 said:

I will be the first to admit that I'm totally ignorant when it comes to the workload involved in coding. The extent of my coding experience has been fiddling around with Excel Macros and doing extremely basic stuff in DOS back in the day. That isn't saying much at all.

 

I am unfamiliar with the csar script you speak of. I will have to look into that. 

 

I know this isn't Arma. I've played it, but I keep coming back to DCS. Also, I'm not new to DCS or ED titles. While I am in no way trying to underestimate the workload involved with this task, I can't imagine it would be anymore difficult than ED creating Combined Arms?

 

Also, thanks to Combined Arms, DCS is not purely a flight simulator anymore is it? And after all, it's Digital "Combat" Simulator not Digital Combat Flight Simulator.

 

True it is important to remember this is digital combat sim and IMHO it seems that combined arms doesn't get the attention it needs. It is just kind of there.

 

 

7 hours ago, Wardog21 said:

 

I could be very wrong, but I feel like the basic mechanics of what we need for this are already there in Combined Arms, are they not? Can you not control ground vehicles with the keyboard and mouse? Why couldn't the FPS part just be a modified copy of the Humvee code?

I'm not sure how well that would work, however I think if we ever get a combined arms II improving the way DCS does infantry would be important.  So this might be cool if we got Combined Arms II with the option to do infantry. 

 

 

7 hours ago, Wardog21 said:

 

Whether it is written into Combined Arms or as a standalone module for DCS, what if it worked like this: Upon ejecting and landing safely, you had the option to enter the "select role" screen and select the "downed pilot" role. You would then be put into what is basically a modified Humvee. In F1 view you would have only crosshairs in the middle of the screen, and basic info regarding your sidearm and or health to start with. You could then use the radio to contact CSAR. Then, when you get picked up and returned to an airbase or carrier, you can select a new aircraft role. By the way, if you didn't have the module, or if you didn't want to participate in the downed pilot role, you could still have those options of being able to set a timer for respawn so you could still bypass the CSAR all together. This again, would be set by the author of the mission in the ME, but you have to agree that it would make a lot of helo pilots out there happy as well.

 

Sure, I imagine that the brunt of the code would be trying to figure out how to do things like record and transfer your current position as an "aircraft role" to the new downed pilot role so it would populate in the correct spot. The Humvee code already exists and could be modified to only go as fast as soldiers do, and at first leave out the ability to jump or crouch if it was too difficult. No need to create a new 3D model as it would use the same generic 3D model as the ejected pilot. I'm guessing that the transport troops code could be used to extract you and the way DCS would qualify you as being returned safely could easily be done using part of group or unit inside moving zone trigger in the ME. This just seems logical to me. Again, I have no idea how it would really work within the confines of the code because I have no clue as to how that all works, but again. It seems like most of the tools are already there. 

 

I can't believe it would be too difficult for ED to do this. This like all modules could evolve over time and become more refined, but it would be a start. Again, I'd gladly buy Combined Arms or any module that modeled this, just like I purchased Super Carrier to have the deck crew and better ATC for the carrier. It's the little things, even though I bet they are massive projects to take on. 

 

I get it, maybe this is just too much? Maybe, for starters, a good place for ED to start would be making it possible for other players in multiplayer to see your pilot walking around on the ground after ejecting? I think that's a solid starting point. Then you can start tackling it piece by piece... that's how you eat an elephant after all.

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, if we took a poll on this and it turns out that nobody else wants to have this implemented, then by all means, ED should just keep trucking along like it has been. But, DCS is growing and while I hope that it some day includes a pilot recovery/csar ability, I'll be content in the meantime with having realistic basket physics and interactions with the aircraft while refueling, and the Super Carrier touch given to airbases so that ground crew and equipment can be seen and used and have better ATC.

 

Would also be nice if troops could be seen inside the Huey during transport and didn't just populate and disappear outside the helo. There is so much work to be done, and yes it all has to be prioritized. I just hope ED doesn't fall behind the curve, because some day, a studio will have a high fidelity full spectrum combat simulation in one package where land, sea and air battles all take place in one highly detailed gaming environment. I hope for ED's sake that it is DCS that spearheads this.

Right now I would like to see them make it easier to load and unload troops. I've said it multiple time give the cargo bay an entry for troops and cargo

 

7 hours ago, Wardog21 said:

 

Lastly, I'm not trying to be confrontational at all, but I feel I have to call you out on the second half of your second sentence. With all due respect, I would argue that you don't speak on behalf of "the majority of the player population" in DCS. On what information or authority do you make that claim? Also, you're killing my buzz man, this is a "wishlist" not a "demand list". Haha.

Yes and I think this could be cool as part of a dynamic campaign

[Kang]

While the idea sounds great, I don't think it's really worth the effort. Once in a while, if I happen to eject near a known friendly position or a settlement or a decent landing zone, I decide to walk the pilot there. It's nice and obviously adding a few functions to that would make it nicer, but travelling by foot is annoyingly slow in comparison and even knowing the destination 'is just on the other side of those trees over there' results in a march of half an hour. You look at similar timescales for a helicopter dispatched from a friendly airbase to reach you in a lot of places and I highly doubt that many people would get a lot of enjoyment of the 'sitting in the shrubs and waiting'-simulation.

 

I wholeheartedly agree that for a dynamic campaign it is a topic to be considered rather seriously, but perhaps there would be other ways of conducting it. For example the dynamic campaign might just forward in the background (perhaps even run the CSAR flight without player intervention) from a map view until the player returns to flight status. For a more multiplayer-minded environment it might make sense to give everyone a limited number of pilots to use, so one can actually enjoy the game and have a benefit of making an effort to get the 'lost' pilots back somehow.

[Northstar98]

Personally, I'd be satisfied if ejected pilots could board helicopters and be ferried back to base or whatever, with them actually sitting in the back of the helicopter.

For at sea ejections, we'd need pilots to have a life raft and helicopters with rescue hoists/winches to have them implemented (such as on the Mi-8, don't think there's any other at the moment). Both of these would be useful for SAR missions regardless, and pilots should have life rafts anyway, instead of just dying if ejecting over water.

When it comes to life rafts, and at-sea SAR, we'd probably need ships to have a physics overhaul to really get it fleshed out (i.e ships that sink realistically and drift with the wind, when it comes to life rafts (and small craft in general), they'll need to interact with the water properly, as right now ships don't (though is less noticeable on larger vessels).

@Kang

Quote

While the idea sounds great, I don't think it's really worth the effort. Once in a while, if I happen to eject near a known friendly position or a settlement or a decent landing zone, I decide to walk the pilot there. It's nice and obviously adding a few functions to that would make it nicer, but travelling by foot is annoyingly slow in comparison and even knowing the destination 'is just on the other side of those trees over there' results in a march of half an hour. You look at similar timescales for a helicopter dispatched from a friendly airbase to reach you in a lot of places and I highly doubt that many people would get a lot of enjoyment of the 'sitting in the shrubs and waiting'-simulation.

But it doesn't have to necessarily be downed players - it could be downed AI, either shot-down mid-mission or just present at player start. Obviously we'd need to be able to have pilots that we can place in the mission editor (as currently we only have infantry).

Obviously it makes more sense in a dynamic campaign, with a limited number of pilots available.

But it doesn't have to be pilots at all - you could do an air-sea rescue mission (I live nearby to a RN airbase, that used to host a RN SAR squadron, flying the Sea King HAR.5). Start the mission with a ship a few miles off the coast, that's either sinking or in danger of sinking. Have people up on deck, in the water or in life-rafts that we can pick up using a rescue hoist (at the moment only present, but not implemented on the Mi-8) - something an older, civilian flight simulator used to.   

Edited January 12, 2022 by Northstar98
formatting, spelling

[upyr1]

On 3/13/2021 at 10:19 AM, Kang said:

I wholeheartedly agree that for a dynamic campaign it is a topic to be considered rather seriously, but perhaps there would be other ways of conducting it. For example the dynamic campaign might just forward in the background (perhaps even run the CSAR flight without player intervention) from a map view until the player returns to flight status. For a more multiplayer-minded environment it might make sense to give everyone a limited number of pilots to use, so one can actually enjoy the game and have a benefit of making an effort to get the 'lost' pilots back somehow.

I'd rather take part in the CSaR operation than downed pilot.  Watch these videos 

 

 

 

[Kang]

On 3/13/2021 at 8:38 PM, Northstar98 said:

Obviously we'd need to be able to have pilots that we can place in the mission editor (as currently we only have infantry).

Frankly, that is something that boggles my mind. The models (and even animations) for the pilots on the ground exist. I don't understand why ED is so reluctant to just adding them as assets. There are plenty of uses for them, from SAR missions for helicopters to just airfield scenery and the effort is not really that big.

[Northstar98]

On 3/16/2021 at 3:37 PM, Kang said:

Frankly, that is something that boggles my mind. The models (and even animations) for the pilots on the ground exist. I don't understand why ED is so reluctant to just adding them as assets. There are plenty of uses for them, from SAR missions for helicopters to just airfield scenery and the effort is not really that big.

I absolutely agree.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Northstar98
formatting

[Xilon_x]

if we make a flow chart we notice that the DCS simulator does not have a very specific purpose.

DCS: the pilot's plane starts from inside the plane (there is neither a guest house nor a briefing room.) Takes off, carries out the mission and returns to the base. If the driver is shot down in mission (kia Mia etc.) he dies and everything ends. if he ejects he survives and lands in a place on the map while remaining on foot but cannot return to base. RESULT = game does not give you a longevity because it does not stimulate you to continue. in DCS this game and open circuit system opens and then wins stop. if, on the other hand, you have a closed circuit and you return home safe and sound, the game has a closed circuit has an exact purpose and gives you more stimulus to play.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[upyr1]

On 3/16/2021 at 10:37 AM, Kang said:

Frankly, that is something that boggles my mind. The models (and even animations) for the pilots on the ground exist. I don't understand why ED is so reluctant to just adding them as assets. There are plenty of uses for them, from SAR missions for helicopters to just airfield scenery and the effort is not really that big.

This would have been awesome for an SAR mission

[dooom]

i have been here since flanker days and I actually agree.  Whilst DcS has come a long way in terms of immersion, i would also like to round that immersive experience out with a bit of recovery simulation.  Briefing room/scramble too for that matter.

 

Give me proper "wasd" POV movement on ground.  Give me a radio and smoke.  Let me join a helo and be ferried back.  It would be fun for me both as the CSAR helo pilot and the pilot on the ground.  It would create player relationships too... i.e. " I'll always be in debt to "NorthStar98" for saving me and my logbook."

 

I know its not a priority though but yeah - it would be fun and memorable... who wouldnt want that?  Having proper logbook functionality would also be awesome... i want it to reflect my MP activity... show my LSO grades, my rescues/shootdowns.

 

I don't want a FPS but I would like an square the corners off around a true mission experience.