F-15E

[arneh]

No they don't have to and probably won't. I'm not sure what is so hard to understand about what they are trying to accomplish. If you want less accuracy in favor of more aircraft, look elsewhere. DCS may not be for you. :dunno:

 

I don't think you quite understood what I meant. I'm not asking them to make simpler or less accurate models.

 

What I'm saying is that they cannot have an absolute rule of no classified information about any of the system on the aircraft they model, because then they won't be able to model any modern aircraft.

 

It's a scale, where some aircraft have many classified systems, while others have only a few. And I can perfectly understand and support ED's decision of only modelling aircraft with as few classified systems as possible. But that doesn't mean that even those aircraft have a few classified systems.

[RedTiger]

Yes, I did misunderstand. Sorry about that. You are right about the classification part. IIRC, the Ka-50 has classified hardware that is not modeled in Black Shark. Yes, if you want no classification you're stuck with Cessnas and such. :D

 

Some of the thoughts in this thread just strike me as missing the point about what DCS is supposed to be about. At one point I felt the exact same way about guessing, but when I found out that the commerical entertainment sims were also to be show pieces for military work, I "got it" and sort of resigned myself to be satisfied with what limited aircraft they could do. I had no idea that they had enough information for an F-15C or Su-27....that was a big surprise for me.

 

Imagine if I said "I am going to build the tallest building I can, but the goal is to see how high it can get using nothing but toothpicks and glue!" and then someone comments "yeah, but steel and welding would make the building taller". < That guy is missing the point. :doh:

[zakobi]

Imagine if I said "I am going to build the tallest building I can, but the goal is to see how high it can get using nothing but toothpicks and glue!" and then someone comments "yeah, but steel and welding would make the building taller". < That guy is missing the point. :doh:

 

Nice one:thumbup:

[SUBS17]

I have no doubt that it takes alot of work to make one of these sims, but to say that something isn't possible to make because you don't have enough info available isn't really a valid answer... guess!!!

 

It's bad business for ED to be saying they won't make a particular model, that's telling all these other companies what they can do to be successful.

Before anything else ED is in the Business to make money off flight sims, If they don't make the money= no sim. What ED should be saying is "We want to model an F-15E and we may release one in the future." Not we don't have time, or a manual, or priority.

 

When XSI comes out with Fighter Ops and people are flying their F-15E (that let's just say is a 70% guess model) having one good ol' time because now they can have a live person as their WSO and can work as a team etc... Simmers are extatic that someone has finally come out with a sim where this is possible and are buying the game like theres no tomorrow and XSI is reeling in the bucks (now they can make more planes).

 

What's ED going to say when asked why they didn't take advantage of this? "well... um... we didn't have a manual..." or "It was to hard..."

 

Let's just say for a moment ED makes an F-15E model that was made off of the teams best guesses. If someone plays it and says " Um... the doppler effect of my radar isn't consistent with the jets actual frequency when in a 7.5g turn while engaging a mig-29 that is 85 degree's off my nose..."

This is when you reply " That may be true but I know what it's like to be with a woman!"

 

90% of simmers will never operate a real military aircraft let alone ever know one's full potential, 5% are real hardcore and build their own cockpits and they might know a little more info than the average simmer, the last 5% are the real military pilots who aren't going to care a whole lot because they fly the real thing.

 

Im sure at ED they have someone who is really good a public relations, make a model of an aircraft (we'll use the F-15E example again) to the best of your ability with the info you do know and then the rest that you guessed. Then when you get to your beta test phase make sure some of your testers are real f-15E pilots. Give a copy to your PR person and have them see if they can set up something to meet with some pilots of an F-15E squadron and say "Hey guys, we are making this new sim of the F-15E and we would like your input on what we've some up with so far." Im sure they'd be happy to do it. Give them each a survey they can fill out after they've tried it with questions like "what did you think about the flight characteristics?", "Radar?", "ECM?" etc. If they leave it blank you either got it right or it's classified, but I think most would give you a slew of info. If most of them say "Man this is one of the most realistic f-15 sims ive flown!" or " Wow this sim is great!" then it would be pretty safe to say that the average joe would probably enjoy the sim.

 

Bottom line is "guess", forget about the nit picking details.

 

Im thrilled for black shark though, looks like a great sim.

 

I doubt XSi will be taking any guesses with any of their aircraft you assume alot but know nothing on their project.

[GGTharos]

And you know very little about state secrets and the men in black.

Should it so happen that XSI material contained any classified information (termed here as 'taking no guesses') you better believe there'd be several people going to jail for a long time when the OSI sweeps down on them.

 

Translation: They will be making a LOT of guesses, or simplifying things that they cannot guess at, just like every other sim developer out there.

 

I doubt XSi will be taking any guesses with any of their aircraft you assume alot but know nothing on their project.

[RedTiger]

And you know very little about state secrets and the men in black.

 

I know I'm not afraid of Will Smith. :smartass:

[Yellonet]

I doubt XSi will be taking any guesses with any of their aircraft you assume alot but know nothing on their project.

Indeed, becuase we all know FO'll never reach release :harhar:

[Blaze1]

Translation: They will be making a LOT of guesses, or simplifying things that they cannot guess at, just like every other sim developer out there.

 

:thumbup: There are electronic systems that were used in Vietnam over thirty years ago that remain classified to this day.

 

I think perhaps guessing isn't the best way to describe what the serious simulation developers do. When it comes to modelling weapon systems developers will try to base their models around weapon system theories. The more accurate/indepth the theories are the more accurate the model will be. The models will never be 100% accurate as classification prevents access to such information. Having said that, there is enough information in the public domain to create excellent systems that the user will find very believeable.

 

Blaze1

[upyr1]

No they don't have to and probably won't. I'm not sure what is so hard to understand about what they are trying to accomplish. If you want less accuracy in favor of more aircraft, look elsewhere. DCS may not be for you. :dunno:

 

Look at my signature. All of those aircraft are not just being considered for DCS modules, all of them are in some state of actually being developed. There is at least 3, the Hind, the A-10A and the A-10C, that are not on my list that are also being developed. Do the math. How many years of sim playing do those 5 aircraft at DCS mean for you? Do you even know where you'll be or what you'll be doing that far in the future? If things turn out to be as high quality and complexity as they claim, there won't be any aircraft shortage for a very long time. :)

From everhy thingI rerad the AH-64 is on the DCS list.

[SUBS17]

And you know very little about state secrets and the men in black.

Should it so happen that XSI material contained any classified information (termed here as 'taking no guesses') you better believe there'd be several people going to jail for a long time when the OSI sweeps down on them.

 

Translation: They will be making a LOT of guesses, or simplifying things that they cannot guess at, just like every other sim developer out there.

 

That depends but since you have pilot input and support from the USAF I'm sure it'll be something pretty much close to the aircraft that DCS will model. Of course you wouldn't model classified material although Janes did model some classified stuff in their sims so if any company does the same thing it would be no surprise to me. Each company of course that makes a sim has to be able to fit the sim to the PCs hardware thats where most of the limitations are so you can't model every atom in detail.

[GGTharos]

That depends but since you have pilot input and support from the USAF I'm sure it'll be something pretty much close to the aircraft that DCS will model.

 

And it will still be all unclass.

 

Of course you wouldn't model classified material although Janes did model some classified stuff in their sims

 

No, it did not. You can go back and search posts by Wags on the subject.

[nemises]

To speak to "some" of the questions here..

If you look on the fighter Collection website which has info on the Commercial (ie. non entertainment) product line's, they indicate that the engine will support external configuration source points so the customer can plug in their own paramaters and values without having to expose them to the developer.

And so, "men in black" needn't be too concerned.

[CAT_101st]

Of course you wouldn't model classified material although Janes did model some classified stuff in their sims.

 

You cant compair what Janes did to what DCS is doing. As much as I love the Janes series it is a kids game compaired to what DCS is trying to do. Janes just used basic line of site with their LB2 RDR. And the systems were very semplefyed. Just some of the capabiltys were put into it. DCS is putting every detail into there works of art.

[SUBS17]

You cant compair what Janes did to what DCS is doing. As much as I love the Janes series it is a kids game compaired to what DCS is trying to do. Janes just used basic line of site with their LB2 RDR. And the systems were very semplefyed. Just some of the capabiltys were put into it. DCS is putting every detail into there works of art.

 

Yes today you could look at the whole series from Janes and make that observation although back then it was considered high fidelity over most other sims. Some of the capabilitys of the Superhornet were classified when they made JF/A-18 I'm not sure where I read it but I heard they did have access to some info whilst it was being developed.

[SUBS17]

And it will still be all unclass.

 

 

 

No, it did not. You can go back and search posts by Wags on the subject.

 

Read my above post at the end of the day who cares I won't lose any sleep if people are going to model an F-15E or a hornet as detailed as the PC can handle it even if they do or do not use some sensitive info with permission from the USAF. Good on them I say and I look forward to flying it.:thumbup: